On the Outlier's Edge Podcast, Abigail Wheeler interviews Niiamah Ashong about the mission at the core of his work: helping people be seen, celebrated and valued for who they are. He traces it from growing up as a first-generation American and working as a retirement actuary to championing leaders who see the world differently. What emerged is how the way he was being in each career carried into the next, and why he asks leaders what they will do with the safety and authenticity they find.
Episode at a glance
- Guest: Abigail Wheeler, Podcast host and longtime youth leadership volunteer
- Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
- Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released January 24, 2023
- Format: conversation, 71 minutes
- Topics: Being seen, celebrated and valued, Receiving excellence, Masking and belonging, From actuary to coach, Coaching through questions, Own your outlier, blaze your trail
What Abigail brought to the conversation
Abigail Wheeler went through a youth leadership program at 16 and has volunteered with it for more than 10 years, helping create a space where young people identified as leaders and change makers feel seen and think about their impact in the world. As she approaches 30, she is moving into learning and development so she can bring what she loves about that work into her career. She started this podcast on her own initiative, and Niiamah Ashong honored her for doing what she does without waiting for approval. In the conversation she reflected back what she sees in him: energy, passion, excellence, intention, commitment, community and impact, and she kept returning to excellence, the word he found hardest to receive.
What emerged
The central shift came when Abigail Wheeler named excellence and Niiamah Ashong noticed he linked it with being polished. She reframed it as being excellent and authentic at the same time, and he saw that he has spent years putting himself in positions where what is natural and genuine to him is the focus, so excellence feels like simply living his life. A through line emerged from his story: it isn't what he did in each career that carried over, it's who he was being, and he now asks the leaders he champions what they will do with the safety and authenticity they find.
Questions this episode answers
What does it mean to help people be seen, celebrated and valued for who they are?
Niiamah Ashong says this is the core of why he is here, and it serves his mission of bringing together a truly inclusive and empowered world. For him, true inclusion means everyone is celebrated and valued, not just allowed in the room but welcomed for what they have to contribute.
How can an actuarial skill set translate into coaching leaders?
As a retirement actuary, Niiamah Ashong put a price on risk and reconciled data year to year, investigating any change outside the expected range. With leaders he runs a kind of internal gain-loss analysis: when someone who has accomplished a great deal says they don't feel enough to handle something that looks a lot smaller, he knows something is off and starts investigating. He says it isn't what he did as an actuary that carried over, but who he was being.
Why can being yourself feel risky for a leader?
Niiamah Ashong says the leaders he champions can get things done, but they tell him it feels risky to speak their truth to power or lead their team from the joyful place they want to. He speaks from experience: around age 30 he realized he had masked himself behind what he thought would keep him safe, and the success he has achieved since embracing who he is has been far greater than what he had before.
Why does Niiamah Ashong coach with questions instead of answers?
He found that people came to him looking for answers he didn't have, but with the right questions they discovered they had the answers themselves or knew exactly how to get them. He avoids handing people answers because that can be disempowering, and he says the process can look slower but in the grand scheme is always faster, because people are transformed.
What are the stages from owning your outlier to shaping your world?
Niiamah Ashong describes three stages: own your outlier, blaze your trail, and shape your world, which he likens to individual, group and societal leadership. Having facilitated a youth leadership program in his twenties, he sees his work as creating that kind of space for adults, whether they find it at 16 or at 36.
In their words
I'm here on this Earth to help people be seen, celebrated and valued for who they are.
Niiamah Ashong
We are all just one in 7.9 billion, but we can be that together.
Niiamah Ashong
I don't work with any person who needs me, I work with people who want me.
Niiamah Ashong
Key moments
02:36 – Receiving the word excellence
05:41 – Seen, celebrated and valued
09:18 – What a goodbye video revealed
13:57 – First-generation American roots
23:17 – Putting a price on risk
30:30 – Gain-loss analysis in coaching
36:12 – Choosing alignment over stability
43:31 – Own your outlier, blaze your trail
53:57 – Questions over answers
66:23 – Assembling a team of superheroes
About Niiamah Ashong
Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.
Work with Niiamah: 1:1 with Niiamah | World of Difference
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