Erik Ingvoldstad, a problem solver who builds digital tools and prototypes user experience, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about simplicity, honesty and innovation. He names simplicity as the core of everything, from customer interactions to family life, and explains why brutal honesty is about speaking to what's real, not being harsh. What emerged is his case for trying things out: experiment, prototype and let ideas come from anyone in an organization.
Episode at a glance
- Guest: Erik Ingvoldstad, Problem solver who builds digital tools and prototypes user experience; former advertising copywriter
- Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
- Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released December 27, 2022
- Format: conversation, 56 minutes
- Topics: Simplicity as the core of everything, Brutal honesty with care, Saying ideas out loud, Innovation where the customers are, Trying things out and prototyping, Diverse experience as a strength
What Erik brought to the conversation
Erik Ingvoldstad brings an extremely diverse background: he worked in advertising as a copywriter, wrote for magazines, worked in fintech, taught creativity and now builds digital tools and does user experience prototyping. Solving problems is what he loves to do, and he deliberately calls them problems, with an eye that keeps seeing how things could be done better. Niiamah Ashong describes him as a provocateur who delivers difficult, real information in a way people are still able to receive. He makes a point of saying when things are great too, telling people when they did a great job or really helped him.
What emerged
The central idea is the one Erik Ingvoldstad named when Niiamah Ashong asked for his bottom line: simplicity is the core of everything, and it is one of the things that is really hard to achieve. He says it is about human interaction, not only customer experience: if things are hard for people they won't like it, and if they're easy people will love it. Niiamah Ashong connects this to being yourself, which he calls simple but super hard. The conversation closes on trying things out, because even when a whole thing doesn't work, there can be one part that did.
Questions this episode answers
Why is simplicity so important in customer and human interactions?
Erik Ingvoldstad says people don't care about a company's brand; they care about themselves, their family, their wallet and their time. If things are hard for people they won't like it, and if they're easy people will love it, which is why he calls simplicity the core of everything.
What is the difference between brutal honesty and being a jerk?
Erik Ingvoldstad says brutal honesty doesn't mean telling people they're ugly or stupid; that is just being a jerk. For him it means speaking about things that are real and connecting what someone says to how it will actually impact people.
Where does real innovation happen inside a company?
Speaking at a large bank's innovation hub, Erik Ingvoldstad told the audience that innovation happens out where the customers are, when you understand their problems and fix them. He says that means talking to customer service representatives, salespeople, support staff and the customers themselves, and empowering a team to understand that ideas can come from anywhere.
Why should leaders talk through ideas out loud?
As a copywriter, Erik Ingvoldstad found that writing he was happy with didn't sound right once he read it out loud in front of the client. He says that when you say things out loud you hear them in a different way, and talking with others gives you both resistance and encouragement, which you need in your life.
How can a leader make experimentation part of how they work?
Something that drives Erik Ingvoldstad is trying things out: experimenting and prototyping, even with a couple of sticky notes to create a mock phone. He says this isn't only for UX or product people but for CEOs and anyone, because even when the whole thing falls apart there can be one part that actually worked.
In their words
When you say things out loud, you hear them in a different way.
Erik Ingvoldstad
If you make it hard for people, they're not gonna like it. If you make it easy for people, they're gonna love it.
Erik Ingvoldstad
The innovation happens out where the customers are, when you can understand their problems and you can fix their problems. That's innovation.
Erik Ingvoldstad
Key moments
01:33 – A provocateur people can still hear
03:38 – Brutal honesty versus being a jerk
04:40 – Why he calls them problems
10:51 – Hearing ideas by saying them aloud
12:56 – Listening as much as speaking
16:05 – Simplicity is the core of everything
25:54 – Diverse experience as a strength
32:35 – Objective truth and interpreted truth
40:54 – Innovation happens where customers are
46:05 – Try it out and prototype
About Niiamah Ashong
Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.
Work with Niiamah: 1:1 with Niiamah | World of Difference
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