Niiamah Ashong, on the Outlier's Edge Podcast, makes the case against the common advice to meet people where they are. Drawing on a conversation with a colleague and his own experience in a program, he argues for holding his own level and inviting people to come and meet him there. What emerged is the distinction between calling people out and calling them in, and the reminder that there are people who want to play at that level too.
Episode at a glance
- Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
- Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released December 13, 2021
- Format: session, 21 minutes
- Topics: Meeting people where they are, Calling people in, not out, Accountability to who people are, Lead and lag indicators, Playing a bigger game, Celebrating differences
What this session is about
Niiamah Ashong challenges the advice to meet people where they are. His alternative is to see people for who they are, hold them accountable to that, and invite them to come and meet him at his level. He doesn't hold clients accountable to tasks; he holds them accountable to who they are, and he calls people in, into their leadership and back into themselves, rather than calling them out. He has found that whenever he tries to meet people where they are, his business and the number of people coming to talk to him slow down, which he describes as the lag indicator.
What emerged
The idea took shape through two stories. In a program, Niiamah Ashong called in someone he had seen play at a high level, wondered afterward whether he had brought too much, and saw that person do something the very next day that they had been on the fence about. He had been on the other side of it too: people in a small group called him in, telling him he showed up with power but was playing in a small place, and that conversation led him back to his movement and to opportunities that now come to him. His conclusion is that when people are seen for who they are and held accountable to that, they will gladly reach up and step into their own power.
Questions this episode answers
Should a coach or leader meet people where they are?
Niiamah Ashong argues against it, especially when working with high flyers. He has found that whenever he tries to meet people where they are, his business and the people coming to talk to him slow down, while seeing people for who they are and holding them accountable to that leads them to reach up and meet him.
What is the difference between calling someone out and calling them in?
Niiamah Ashong says calling people out no longer interests him; he calls people in, into their leadership, into who they are and back into themselves, without having them retreat. He learned the distinction when people in a small group called him in, telling him they saw him and wanted to play with him.
What does it mean to hold someone accountable to who they are?
Niiamah Ashong never holds clients accountable to the tasks they put out there, and says he doesn't even hold himself accountable to his own. He holds them accountable to who they are: having heard their story and seen what they've done, he can tell when they're trying to sell him a version of themselves that's less than who they truly are.
What changes when a leader stops playing small?
When Niiamah Ashong stepped back into his movement after just over a year of not talking about it publicly, the opportunities changed: people began reaching out to collaborate, ask about resources and refer clients who could use his experience in areas like diversity and inclusion. He describes it as lead and lag, since when he played smaller, everything slowed down.
Why look for open-minded people rather than like-minded people?
Niiamah Ashong says finding what people have in common bores him, and he isn't looking to hang out with like-minded people. He spends his time with open-minded people who hold themselves accountable to who they know they can be, and he is after celebrating and valuing differences, something much higher than tolerating or accepting them.
In their words
I do like to call people in, into their leadership, into who they are, back into themselves.
Niiamah Ashong
They didn't meet me where I was. They saw me and they held me accountable to who I was.
Niiamah Ashong
You don't need to meet anyone where they are. Invite people to come and meet you where you are, because you play a big game.
Niiamah Ashong
Key moments
00:01 – Done meeting people where they are
02:34 – The lag indicator of playing small
04:37 – Accountable to who people are
05:38 – Calling people in, not out
08:11 – Wondering if it was too much
09:12 – Stepping up the very next day
11:43 – Being called in himself
13:16 – Reconnecting with his movement
15:47 – Inviting people to meet him
16:49 – Celebrating and valuing differences
About Niiamah Ashong
Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.
Work with Niiamah: 1:1 with Niiamah | World of Difference
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