Steven Mays, a biohacker who sees life as a game, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about bringing play into work. He shares how he gamifies growth with bite-sized steps, simple brain games and clear ways to keep score, while Niiamah Ashong applies it in real time to the monthly quests he is designing at Outlier's Edge. What emerged is a three-step way to turn a heavy goal into a game: make it fun, keep it bite-sized, and measure the wins.
Episode at a glance
- Guest: Steven Mays, Biohacker who sees life as a game
- Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
- Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released October 18, 2022
- Format: conversation, 41 minutes
- Topics: Life as a game, Fun as part of the process, Bite-sized wins, Training an adaptable brain, Replacing work with play, Keeping score with standards and metrics
What Steven brought to the conversation
Steven Mays describes his mission as being creative and playful, exploring his imagination and sharing it with others. What makes him distinct, beyond any title or his role as a father, is gamifying things: to him life is a game, and he wants to play rather than sit on the sidelines. He is building a biohacking brand, trains his own brain with simple ball games that build adaptability, and works from a framework with five pillars, one of which is recovery. Niiamah Ashong sees in him a distinct presence and someone who keeps investing in his own growth.
What emerged
The central insight is that play and results aren't opposites. Listening to Steven Mays, Niiamah Ashong saw that a game can deliver the same outcome as a KPI while feeling completely different to pursue, and he left with at least four ways to bring that into his client work and the monthly quests at Outlier's Edge. Steven Mays framed why it works: a person's state right now is what creates the future, so engaging fun, creativity and playfulness in the present moment is how the vision gets built.
Questions this episode answers
How can a leader gamify a big goal?
Steven Mays uses three steps: make it fun from the onset, because fun is part of the process; make it bite-sized so it's easy to say yes to; and set the standards and metrics to measure wins and losses by. Repeating that cycle reinforces a person's belief that they can make things happen, and three days like that build momentum.
Why do small steps work better than big leaps?
Steven Mays says a grand vision can feel like so much that people do nothing today, while three small steps give momentum and are like the equivalent of a big step. For a proposal 12 times larger than usual, he would start with just three outbound phone calls to people who would be fun to connect with. Niiamah Ashong compares it to building muscle: as the muscles get stronger, the same effort carries further.
How can play make work feel lighter?
Steven Mays notices that words like work, payroll and boss can feel heavy and bring up an image of stress, so he tried replacing work with play in how he describes things. Describing a situation in a way that keeps him playful lets him think creatively and have more influence over the outcome, even if the game that day is simply encouraging three co-workers.
What does a simple ball game have to do with business?
Steven Mays uses ball games, like tossing a ball from hand to hand so it crosses his midline, to keep his brain adaptable, and he treats every drop as positive reinforcement because the brain learns from it. He says that what works with the ball works in business too: with calls, with leads and with enrollment.
Why play a game when you can't predict the outcome?
Steven Mays says that's the point: anything can happen in a game, which is where the fun and excitement lie, and people still play even when they try to predict the result. Niiamah Ashong holds a similar view of his own work: it isn't about the outcome but about creating a space where something different can occur.
In their words
If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong.
Steven Mays
Three small steps give you momentum, and that's like the equivalent of taking a big step.
Steven Mays
Every time you drop the ball it's actually a positive thing, it's positive reinforcement for your brain.
Steven Mays
Key moments
05:40 – Creating the sandbox
09:18 – Life is a game
12:25 – Anything can happen in a game
13:26 – Designing monthly quests
16:02 – Fun first, then bite size
17:37 – Three outbound calls to start
21:49 – Games that train the brain
29:02 – Living from the vision now
32:42 – Replacing work with play
35:17 – Three steps to gamify anything
About Niiamah Ashong
Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.
Work with Niiamah: 1:1 with Niiamah | World of Difference
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