Mike Harris, a coach and woodworker who championed Niiamah Ashong as he was building his coaching business, joins him on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about setting both the best foot and the worst foot forward. The conversation moves from straight talk over sounding deep to woodworking as a practice of self-forgiveness. What emerged is self-forgiveness as an active practice: catching the mistake, cleaning it up, and playing both roles at once.
Episode at a glance
- Guest: Mike Harris, Coach and woodworker
- Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
- Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released October 20, 2022
- Format: conversation, 48 minutes
- Topics: Best foot and worst foot forward, Straight talk over sounding deep, Learning through implementation, Woodworking as a practice, Self-forgiveness as a practice, Playing both roles inside ourselves
What Mike brought to the conversation
Mike Harris has been woodworking for 15 years. He picked it up out of necessity to fix his own home, found the art in it, and made pieces to give as gifts; about a year before this conversation, at his wife's suggestion, he put a shop together again and turned it into a business. He has had a lot of coaching conversations over the years, and Niiamah Ashong credits him with championing him as he figured out how to build a coaching business. Years ago Mike walked Niiamah through a process for naming the context, vision and results of how he wanted to create himself as a leader, and Niiamah still listens to the result as his manifesto.
What emerged
The central shift is in how self-forgiveness actually works. Mike Harris describes forgiveness as the lever: when he makes a mistake in the shop, he catches the instinct to be hard on himself, tells himself it's okay, and cleans it up, and the cleanup is part of the forgiveness. Niiamah Ashong, who asked to explore the topic, tried it out in real time and saw that on an unconventional path that forgiveness needs to come from within, with a new level of levity. Mike Harris adds that people play two roles inside themselves all the time, the one giving judgment, acceptance or forgiveness and the one receiving it, and that becoming aware of that dance is the foundation of creating the present moment and the future.
Questions this episode answers
Why does a polished best foot forward sometimes land less than the unpolished version?
Mike Harris says much of what people call their best foot forward is manufactured and rehearsed, and not quite who they are. Someone once told him she could tell when he was trying to sound deep, and he noticed that when he just says what's on his mind in a straightforward way, even stumbling through it, that is sometimes the most impactful thing for someone else.
Why can a leader hear something new in the same book after many listens?
Niiamah Ashong has listened to one mentor's book probably over 30 times, and the words never change. What changes is whether he has implemented it: after trying it in his life, he comes back as a different person hearing the same thing. Mike Harris adds that conceptually many things feel profound, but experientially everything is profound.
What does self-forgiveness look like in practice?
Mike Harris has been woodworking for 15 years and still makes at least a little mistake on every piece. In the example he gives, when he cuts an extra two inches off a piece, he catches the instinct to be hard on himself, tells himself it's okay, and cleans it up, and he sees the cleanup as part of the forgiveness. He plays both roles: the forgiver and the one being forgiven.
How is self-forgiveness different from self-acceptance?
Niiamah Ashong asked Mike Harris exactly this. Mike said forgiveness feels like the lever, because something specific happened, and he compared it to a five-year-old knocking over a drink at the dinner table, where cleaning it up together says not only that the child is forgiven but that someone has their back.
Why does self-forgiveness matter for leaders on unconventional paths?
Niiamah Ashong says self-forgiveness matters especially when leaders are doing things that are a first for them or have never been done before. It is one thing to have a parental figure say it's okay and all is forgiven, and another to reach the stage where that needs to come from within, and he found a new level of levity in playing that role for himself.
In their words
Conceptually there are a lot of things that feel profound, but experientially everything's profound.
Mike Harris
And then we clean it up, and the cleanup is part of the forgiveness.
Mike Harris
Key moments
00:31 – A longtime champion joins the show
04:41 – Best foot and worst foot forward
08:19 – Straight talk over sounding deep
10:54 – Hearing the same book differently
17:09 – Coming back to woodworking
18:43 – Self-forgiveness at the workbench
28:40 – Where his self-forgiveness practice began
33:57 – The cleanup is part of forgiveness
39:37 – Playing both roles inside ourselves
About Niiamah Ashong
Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.
Work with Niiamah: 1:1 with Niiamah | World of Difference
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