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Theresa Bowie, a military officer, engineer and coach, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about embracing unconventional paths to success. She shares the prismatic experiences she brings into every room, from six years of active duty and a steel mill to the corporate world and coaching. What emerged is a reframe: what she has called the long way around has actually been a series of shortcuts, and when her soul calls for something, she jumps in and makes it work.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Theresa Bowie, Military officer, engineer and coach
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released March 21, 2023
• Format: conversation, 43 minutes
• Topics: A prismatic perspective, From the military to the corporate world, Beginner's mind in every room, Unconventional paths as shortcuts, Following the soul's calling, Leading people back to a colorful world

What Theresa brought to the conversation

Theresa Bowie brings what she calls a prismatic perspective. She served six years of active duty in the military, completed her degree, and started her career in an 1890-vintage steel mill, one of the experiences she says she'll treasure most, before moving into the corporate world. She earned her commission as an officer late in her career, going through officer training alongside graduates more than 10 years younger, and has over 17 years of military experience. About a year before this conversation she completed a long, global certification to teach a program whose message she is passionate about getting out to everyone, and she feels pulled to step away from corporate life to give back in bigger ways.

What emerged

The central shift is a reframe of her story. Theresa Bowie has called her path the long way around, and Niiamah Ashong showed her it has been a series of shortcuts: she keeps landing in rooms others took far longer to reach, bringing experiences they don't have. She named what drives it: when her soul calls for something, she goes with it and things happen, and she is learning to own that rather than call it luck. Her vision is to lead people out of the gray shades of daily life and back into a colorful world where they reconnect with their own mission.

Questions this episode answers

How can an unconventional career path become a shortcut?

Niiamah Ashong noticed that Theresa Bowie describes her path as the long way around, yet she keeps arriving in rooms that others spent years working toward, carrying experiences they didn't bring. He saw the same in his own career when he realized people in the same room had taken 15 years longer to get there, and he invited her to drop the long-way-around story.

How can a leader walk into a room with beginner's mind?

Theresa Bowie comes into rooms without making assumptions, almost like an empty cup, asking both what she can bring to the room and how the space can fill her up. Niiamah Ashong calls this a superpower, because many givers don't give themselves the space to keep playing the game when they don't look at how it fills them up.

How can military experience carry into a corporate career?

Theresa Bowie brought six years of active duty in the military into a steel mill and then the corporate world, where she found that behind the shiny glass windows it felt really familiar: everyone was just wearing different uniforms. People often see her as fresh out of college or brand new, and they are taken aback to learn she has more than 17 years of military experience.

What does it mean to follow your soul's calling in your career?

Theresa Bowie says that when her soul calls for something and she feels a burning desire to manifest it, she goes with it and things happen, and she is learning that it's not just luck, because people create their own luck. Stepping away from a lucrative job as an electrical engineer might sound crazy to other people, and her answer is that what she is doing isn't changing the world enough or fast enough for her.

Why should leaders stop playing down their own stories?

When Theresa Bowie closed a story by saying it was just one of the things that came to mind, Niiamah Ashong invited her to end it with a period instead. He sees phrases like that as innocuous habits people use to be polite, and he was there to celebrate her, not to let her give up on herself in the middle of it. Putting a period on the story led her to name its essence: when her soul calls for something, she goes with it.

In their words

Okay, actually this feels really familiar, we're just wearing different uniforms.

Theresa Bowie

What I'm doing is not changing the world enough or fast enough for me right now, so I need to do something different.

Theresa Bowie

Lead them back into the colorful world so they can reconnect with their souls and feel that spark to be driven on their own mission.

Theresa Bowie

Key moments

02:04 – Seen as a multifaceted diamond

04:39 – A prismatic perspective

05:39 – From the military to a steel mill

07:45 – Earning a commission late

13:01 – An empty cup in every room

18:45 – Different paths into the same room

22:27 – Unconventional paths as shortcuts

27:11 – Ending the sentence with a period

28:46 – When the soul calls

34:26 – Leading people back to color

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Matt Chavlovich, a coach committed to making people better, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about asking the hard questions that reveal what a person is capable of. Drawing on his time as a triathlete, he describes level 10 as giving everything and surrendering to the support of others. What emerged is a different game: finding out how good a person can be rather than just finishing, and surrounding themselves with people who will spot them.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Matt Chavlovich, Coach and business owner committed to making people better
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released March 7, 2023
• Format: conversation, 41 minutes
• Topics: Playing at level 10, Finding out what people are capable of, Surrender and support, Not enough yet, Leading with the heart, Choosing who spots them

What Matt brought to the conversation

Matt Chavlovich has studied the human mind since he was a teenager, earned a psychology degree and always envisioned training athletes to become better athletes. After a long run in corporate America, he started his own business about seven years ago to help people start the thing they've always wanted to do, and it has grown into helping people ask what they want and why they don't have it yet. His clients tell him he gives them possibility and permission, and he runs a group built around people hearing themselves roar: stepping into the world with what is inside them, surrounded by people doing the same. He wears his heart on his sleeve, and Niiamah Ashong credits him with modeling belonging from their very first conversation.

What emerged

For Matt Chavlovich, level 10 is the point where a person lets go of all control and has to surrender to the support and help of others, like giving everything in a race without knowing if there's enough left to finish. He asks whether people are willing to get the answer to what they're capable of, including the answer that they're not good enough yet, and the key word is yet. Matt encourages enlisting people as spotters while telling them clearly, 'I'll tell you when I need help,' and Niiamah Ashong recognizes in real time his own habit of announcing when he's about to do something scary so he feels free to do it.

Questions this episode answers

What does it mean to play at level 10?

Matt Chavlovich describes level 10 as the point where a person gives everything, lets go of all control and has to surrender to the support and help of others. In a race, it means choosing to go as fast as possible without knowing whether he'll get over the finish line, rather than holding back enough to make sure he finishes.

Is it better to finish or to find out how good you can be?

Matt Chavlovich argues that most people are just about finishing, and he invites them to play a different game: finding out how good they can be so next time they can be better. He says that when someone brings it all and one day is able to finish, they're playing at a different level.

How can a leader accept not being there yet?

Matt Chavlovich says one of people's greatest fears is to give it all and for it not to be enough, so the question is whether they're willing to get the answer to what they're capable of. He points out that so many people say they're not enough, when the key word is yet.

How do you find people who will support you when you push your limits?

Matt Chavlovich says that when people live this way and put that energy into the world, they attract the people who are willing to spot them and they filter for them. He encourages enlisting that support while telling spotters clearly when help is wanted, since people can bring in their own limitations when they think someone needs help.

Can your capacity to show up fully grow over time?

Niiamah Ashong shares that during a leadership opportunity, someone told him the real question was whether he could handle a level 10 version of himself. That led him to build his nervous system's capacity, and over time what was his level 10 has become a level seven.

In their words

Play a different game. Find out how good you can be so next time you can be better.

Matt Chavlovich

So many people are like, oh, I'm not there, I'm not enough. No, you're not enough yet.

Matt Chavlovich

Surround yourself with people that accept what you're about and you'll have more courage to lean into it.

Matt Chavlovich

Key moments

03:08 – Letting go of winning and losing

07:16 – A first conversation about belonging

08:19 – A heart worn on the outside

13:56 – Committed to making people better

15:31 – Who decides what someone can handle

18:35 – Building capacity for level 10

21:38 – Level 10 means surrender

28:55 – Finishing versus finding out

31:37 – Not enough yet

33:12 – Attracting people willing to spot

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Carolina Migliaccio, a heart-led leader who helps people step into their emotional freedom, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast for a conversation about humanity mattering and the edge of being seen. She talks about the difference between the discomfort that leads to the next level and the fear that holds people back, and about the book chapter she is keeping because it matters. What emerged is a shared lesson for anyone who creates: have an intention for what people take away, and stay open to the other messages that come through.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Carolina Migliaccio, Heart-led leader who helps people step into their emotional freedom, and is writing a book
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released February 21, 2023
• Format: conversation, 45 minutes
• Topics: Humanity mattering, Leading from the heart, Emotional freedom, Threshold versus fear, Ways to be seen, Writing the chapter that matters

What Carolina brought to the conversation

Carolina Migliaccio says she is about humanity mattering, and calls herself a heart-led leader who leads from her heart because without passion and joy, nothing really matters. Her work is helping people step into their emotional freedom, with a mission of impacting 100 million lives, and the number one principle she shares with her clients is that you have to be in it and feel. The pen has always been her voice, and she is writing a book with help from a publishing company and editors. Niiamah Ashong describes a solidity to her that can be felt, together with a joy and a positive flavor she brings to everything.

What emerged

Carolina Migliaccio names a distinction worth keeping: the discomfort at the threshold of the next level is very different from the fear that holds people back. Her own edge is being seen beyond the page, and her preference is to be seen in conversation, such as on podcasts, rather than alone on camera. Niiamah Ashong shares that what people take from his videos is often not what he set out to say, and she draws the message for both of them: have an intention of what you want people to take away, and be open to receive other messages that come through.

Questions this episode answers

How can a leader tell the difference between productive discomfort and fear?

Carolina Migliaccio says a conversation can be a little uncomfortable, and it's that discomfort that gets people to the next level, so they should be able to embrace it. She adds that they also need to discern the difference between that threshold and the fear that's holding them back, because those are two very different things.

What does emotional freedom require?

The number one principle Carolina Migliaccio shares with her clients is that you have to be in it and feel. She says many people aren't free because they don't want to talk about things and stuff everything down, and that walking through the bad and feeling it is how people heal.

Why is anger closer to freedom than apathy?

Carolina Migliaccio describes five stages on the way to freedom, with apathy at the bottom: not feeling a thing and saying you're fine. When you feel anger, she says, you are right before getting to freedom, because you've got to feel that charge and release it.

How should a creator think about what people take from their work?

Niiamah Ashong says people often tell him they got something from his videos that was different from what he was talking about. Carolina Migliaccio draws the lesson: have an intention of what you want people to take away, but also be open to receive other messages that come through, because that's the gift to them and to you.

Can a leader be seen without going live alone on camera?

Carolina Migliaccio's preference is to do things with someone rather than alone, such as podcasts, because the conversation is much richer and it is also a way to be seen. Niiamah Ashong adds that there are so many different ways to be seen.

In their words

That's the beauty of being an outlier because you're not like anybody else.

Carolina Migliaccio

Have an intention of what you want people to take away from it but also be open to receive other messages that come through.

Carolina Migliaccio

Walking through the bad and feeling the bad is how we heal. We can't heal if we don't feel.

Carolina Migliaccio

Key moments

05:13 – About humanity mattering

06:45 – Helping people into emotional freedom

09:49 – Discomfort at the threshold versus fear

10:52 – The pen has been her voice

19:10 – Intention and openness to other messages

21:47 – Being seen through conversation

26:24 – A mission of 100 million lives

28:29 – Keeping the chapter that matters

33:11 – You have to be in it

34:14 – Five stages to freedom

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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June Murage, a writer, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about how identity informs action. She already writes and has books available for free online, and the conversation explores what it means for her to call herself an author. What emerged is her mission: stories that open up topics people rarely talk about, so readers realize they are not alone.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: June Murage, Writer of stories on topics people rarely talk about
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released February 14, 2023
• Format: conversation, 44 minutes
• Topics: Identity informs action, From writer to author, Speaking from a new identity, Writing about unspoken topics, Helping readers feel less alone, Saying what needs to be said

What June brought to the conversation

June Murage is a mom, a wife and a writer, an identity she says she had to work for and believe in before she could call herself a writer. She writes stories that deal with topics many people shy away from, and she has three books posted on free sites online. Her focus is on starting conversations about what people go through but rarely talk about, especially for those who feel they can't open up to the community around them. Niiamah Ashong describes her dedication to learning, to her family and to the people her work invites in, along with her willingness to say what needs to be said.

What emerged

The central insight comes from Niiamah Ashong's question about order: what if the identity of author comes first, and the sellable, physical book follows? Invited to speak for the rest of the conversation as an author, June Murage found her mind went straight to impact: what she is writing and what it does for the people reading it. She names her purpose as changing someone's life and helping people realize they are not alone, and Niiamah Ashong reframes a man who walked up to her and boldly called himself an author as a mirror showing her how she can show up.

Questions this episode answers

What is the difference between doing something and owning the identity?

Niiamah Ashong notes that he has cooked but isn't a cook, and played sports but only became an athlete in his own mind after his personal trainer pointed out his athletic build. June Murage owns being a writer because writing is what she always comes back to, while the identity of author had not yet caught up with the books she has written.

What makes someone an author?

June Murage first tied it to having a book she could sell and hold physically. Niiamah Ashong asked what if the order is the other way around: a man who knew he was an author made a book he could sell, so the identity may come first and the book follow.

How does stepping into a new identity change how you talk about your work?

When June Murage spoke as an author, her mind went immediately to impact: not just writing words, but what she is writing and what impact it has on the people reading it. From there she named the purpose of her stories clearly.

Why write stories about topics people avoid?

June Murage sees people asking public social media pages to post their questions anonymously because they fear being condemned by the community around them. Her stories bring those topics into the open so they become a conversation and readers can see they are not alone.

How can a writer speak about their work with more power?

Niiamah Ashong tells June Murage he feels her power come through, and invites her to put a period at the end of each sentence and let it sit. He sees her confronting hard topics from a positive and impactful place, and a mission in her work.

In their words

I had to actually believe in myself to call myself a writer.

June Murage

My agenda with my stories or whatever I write is to impact someone's life, is to change someone's life.

June Murage

I don't think it was taken away, I think he was actually giving you a mirror.

Niiamah Ashong

Key moments

02:04 – Opportunity, growth and honest observation

04:39 – An invitation to cross the line

06:14 – A mom, a wife and a writer

08:52 – Writer versus author

15:05 – What if the order is reversed

16:38 – Speaking as an author

21:21 – An author's mind goes to impact

21:51 – Stories on topics rarely discussed

31:16 – Writing so readers aren't alone

40:33 – A mirror, not a loss

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Sunmeet Jolly, a Silicon Valley inventor and angel investor, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about using technology to make life better, cheaper and faster. He shares how a consumer app for group planning grew out of a decade in corporate technology, and why that path was earned over many years. What emerged is how the environments a leader chooses shape what they create, and why focus matters when ideas are everywhere.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Sunmeet Jolly, Silicon Valley inventor and angel investor
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released February 7, 2023
• Format: conversation, 43 minutes
• Topics: Innovation through technology, Group productivity tools, From corporate career to inventor, How environment shapes creators, Choosing what to focus on, Angel investing as leverage

What Sunmeet brought to the conversation

Sunmeet Jolly came to Silicon Valley 22 years ago, motivated by technological innovation, after studying engineering in India. He spent his first decade in a corporate high-tech sales job, learning how to build business and do millions of dollars of sales, while investing in real estate around Silicon Valley and in India. He is now an inventor with two U.S. patents granted in group productivity tools, and he created a consumer app for group planning that has 91,000 downloads in 175 countries and a near five-star rating. He is also an angel investor in 44 startups across robotics, drones, biotechnology, artificial intelligence, virtual reality and more.

What emerged

The central thread is environment. Sunmeet Jolly says people get shaped by their environments, and in Silicon Valley even conversations over lunch or dinner come down to how technology can make something better, faster and cheaper. Niiamah Ashong acknowledges how consistently he has put himself in the environments that most support what he is going after, from a book he read while working in India to the move to Silicon Valley. Sunmeet Jolly also makes the case for focus: ideas are always there, but bringing one to life takes capital, talent, time and a team, and angel investing lets him take part in the rest.

Questions this episode answers

What does it take to go from a corporate career to becoming an inventor?

Sunmeet Jolly spent his first decade in a corporate high-tech sales job, building the savings and investments that later gave him the luxury to invent and invest. He says it was earned over many years and decades, and that every skill, including a network, is learned and honed over a period of time.

How does your environment shape what you create as a leader?

Sunmeet Jolly says people get shaped by their environments. In Silicon Valley, conversations over lunch or dinner come down to what problems people are seeing and how technology can make things better, faster and cheaper, and he attends four or five technology conferences every year.

Why is planning trips and events in group chat apps so hard?

Sunmeet Jolly explains that the most popular chat apps are end-to-end encrypted, so third-party tools can't integrate, and every message is queued and mixed up together. Planning for trips, events, potlucks and splitting bills gets lost among jokes and videos, which is why he created a complementary app focused on group productivity.

How does a leader choose which ideas to pursue?

Sunmeet Jolly says that anyone educated in technology and marketing will always see ideas, but no one can focus their energy on everything that's possible. Even one app requires capital, talent, time, marketing and a team of people, so he is focusing on it.

Why become an angel investor when you are already creating your own company?

Sunmeet Jolly says no one has to found everything themselves. As an angel investor in 44 startups, he follows each company's progress, helps with connections from time to time and takes part in the upside, including one company that went from a 20 million dollar valuation in 2017 to going public at a two billion dollar valuation.

In their words

It's earned over many years and decades, it's not a one day thing.

Sunmeet Jolly

Every skill is learned and honed over a period of time.

Sunmeet Jolly

You don't have to found everything yourself, it is not possible.

Sunmeet Jolly

Key moments

01:01 – Innovation that makes life better

04:09 – The group productivity app he created

11:32 – Two U.S. patents granted

13:06 – A decade in corporate sales

16:12 – Every skill is learned over time

23:34 – How environment shapes people

28:16 – Books and seminars that shaped him

32:29 – Choosing what to focus on

37:06 – Angel investing in 44 startups

40:16 – You don't have to found everything

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Amanda Parker, a coach and the creator of the T7M Community mastermind, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about courage and how to apply it. She shares why courage looks different for every person, how the rooms people sit in reflect their thinking back to them, and how intuition guides bold moves. What emerged is that listening to intuition and acting in alignment with it creates its own certainty, and the more people know themselves, the easier it is to make moves that once seemed impossible.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Amanda Parker, Coach, catalyst for courage and creator of the T7M Community mastermind
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released January 31, 2023
• Format: conversation, 44 minutes
• Topics: Courage is personal, Courage and confidence, Rooms that reflect people's thinking, Setting a room up for possibility, Listening to intuition, Self-trust

What Amanda brought to the conversation

Amanda Parker describes herself as a catalyst for courage, helping people access a deeper level of themselves and a courage they didn't know was inside them. Her own path took her to two other countries to work in wildlife conservation, moves others called courageous and she says would have been impossible for her not to make. She started her business in 2018, has led many group coaching and leadership development programs, and works with leaders, creators and change makers, many of them in social impact and tech. She created the T7M Community mastermind so people working on their next edge can see they're not alone, build confidence and reach their next level of success.

What emerged

The central insight is that courage is personal: a step others call brave may come naturally, and the real edge lies somewhere else. Amanda Parker ties courage closely to confidence, saying the more a person trusts and knows themselves, the easier it is to make moves that would have seemed impossible before. Niiamah Ashong heard in this that leaders who choose their own path get to create their own certainty, by listening to their intuition and taking action in alignment with it.

Questions this episode answers

What does courage mean for a leader?

Amanda Parker says courage is worth defining because the limit is different for each person: what takes tremendous courage for one person comes naturally to another. People called her moves abroad to work in wildlife conservation courageous, but for her it would have been impossible not to make them, so her edge was somewhere else.

How are courage and confidence connected?

Amanda Parker ties them closely together: the more a person trusts, knows and understands themselves, the easier it is to make moves that would have seemed impossible before. From the outside it looks courageous, but in the moment that person is simply living their life and making choices, and the edge keeps moving.

How does the room a leader is in shape their thinking?

Amanda Parker has noticed that at every stage of her career she has been surrounded by people reflecting back whatever her fears were at the time, from how to get clients to whether her rates were too low. Without an outlier in the room who sees things differently, she says it's really hard to get pulled out of that way of thinking. Niiamah Ashong recalled a group money conversation where one woman said making money wasn't hard for her, which showed him how much groupthink was in that room.

How can a facilitator set a group up to think bigger?

Amanda Parker says the way she sets people up determines what happens in the space: if she frames the room around what isn't working, people bring that energy in. Instead she charges the space with what is possible and what people really want to create, giving them permission to think outside the box, show up fully, dream a little bigger and not be afraid of looking stupid or making silly comments.

How can a leader tell when they're out of alignment?

Amanda Parker says intuition, whether someone calls it an inner voice, wisdom or knowing, speaks to each person differently, and when she ignores her knowing she can tell something is out of alignment. She says the body will show it too, in a different way for each person, and she encourages getting familiar with how one's own intuition speaks through sitting down, journaling and reflecting.

In their words

It's worth defining what courage means, because that limit is really different for each of us.

Amanda Parker

You're creating something that's never been there before, so the only judgment you have is what's coming from within.

Amanda Parker

Key moments

04:13 – A catalyst for courage

07:51 – Defining what courage means

13:34 – Courage and confidence

15:40 – Groupthink in a money circle

21:49 – Setting a room up for possibility

27:35 – Intuition behind bold moves

30:10 – Creators create their own certainty

31:43 – How intuition speaks to each person

38:32 – A mastermind for the next edge

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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On the Outlier's Edge Podcast, Abigail Wheeler interviews Niiamah Ashong about the mission at the core of his work: helping people be seen, celebrated and valued for who they are. He traces it from growing up as a first-generation American and working as a retirement actuary to championing leaders who see the world differently. What emerged is how the way he was being in each career carried into the next, and why he asks leaders what they will do with the safety and authenticity they find.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Abigail Wheeler, Podcast host and longtime youth leadership volunteer
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released January 24, 2023
• Format: conversation, 71 minutes
• Topics: Being seen, celebrated and valued, Receiving excellence, Masking and belonging, From actuary to coach, Coaching through questions, Own your outlier, blaze your trail

What Abigail brought to the conversation

Abigail Wheeler went through a youth leadership program at 16 and has volunteered with it for more than 10 years, helping create a space where young people identified as leaders and change makers feel seen and think about their impact in the world. As she approaches 30, she is moving into learning and development so she can bring what she loves about that work into her career. She started this podcast on her own initiative, and Niiamah Ashong honored her for doing what she does without waiting for approval. In the conversation she reflected back what she sees in him: energy, passion, excellence, intention, commitment, community and impact, and she kept returning to excellence, the word he found hardest to receive.

What emerged

The central shift came when Abigail Wheeler named excellence and Niiamah Ashong noticed he linked it with being polished. She reframed it as being excellent and authentic at the same time, and he saw that he has spent years putting himself in positions where what is natural and genuine to him is the focus, so excellence feels like simply living his life. A through line emerged from his story: it isn't what he did in each career that carried over, it's who he was being, and he now asks the leaders he champions what they will do with the safety and authenticity they find.

Questions this episode answers

What does it mean to help people be seen, celebrated and valued for who they are?

Niiamah Ashong says this is the core of why he is here, and it serves his mission of bringing together a truly inclusive and empowered world. For him, true inclusion means everyone is celebrated and valued, not just allowed in the room but welcomed for what they have to contribute.

How can an actuarial skill set translate into coaching leaders?

As a retirement actuary, Niiamah Ashong put a price on risk and reconciled data year to year, investigating any change outside the expected range. With leaders he runs a kind of internal gain-loss analysis: when someone who has accomplished a great deal says they don't feel enough to handle something that looks a lot smaller, he knows something is off and starts investigating. He says it isn't what he did as an actuary that carried over, but who he was being.

Why can being yourself feel risky for a leader?

Niiamah Ashong says the leaders he champions can get things done, but they tell him it feels risky to speak their truth to power or lead their team from the joyful place they want to. He speaks from experience: around age 30 he realized he had masked himself behind what he thought would keep him safe, and the success he has achieved since embracing who he is has been far greater than what he had before.

Why does Niiamah Ashong coach with questions instead of answers?

He found that people came to him looking for answers he didn't have, but with the right questions they discovered they had the answers themselves or knew exactly how to get them. He avoids handing people answers because that can be disempowering, and he says the process can look slower but in the grand scheme is always faster, because people are transformed.

What are the stages from owning your outlier to shaping your world?

Niiamah Ashong describes three stages: own your outlier, blaze your trail, and shape your world, which he likens to individual, group and societal leadership. Having facilitated a youth leadership program in his twenties, he sees his work as creating that kind of space for adults, whether they find it at 16 or at 36.

In their words

I'm here on this Earth to help people be seen, celebrated and valued for who they are.

Niiamah Ashong

We are all just one in 7.9 billion, but we can be that together.

Niiamah Ashong

I don't work with any person who needs me, I work with people who want me.

Niiamah Ashong

Key moments

02:36 – Receiving the word excellence

05:41 – Seen, celebrated and valued

09:18 – What a goodbye video revealed

13:57 – First-generation American roots

23:17 – Putting a price on risk

30:30 – Gain-loss analysis in coaching

36:12 – Choosing alignment over stability

43:31 – Own your outlier, blaze your trail

53:57 – Questions over answers

66:23 – Assembling a team of superheroes

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

Work with Niiamah: 1:1 with Niiamah | World of Difference

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