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Taryell Simmons, an equity, diversity and inclusion leader and podcast host, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about finding his place across cultures. Raised between a Nigerian household and Black American culture, he shares how he came to see having both cultures as a gift. What emerged is his calling to create authentic human connection and brave spaces, and his decision, rooted in his daughter, to be a voice.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Taryell Simmons, Equity, diversity and inclusion leader and podcast host
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released December 1, 2022
• Format: conversation, 51 minutes
• Topics: Growing up between two cultures, Authentic human connection, Safe spaces and brave spaces, Holding space for honest dialogue, Representation for the next generation, How he creates himself as a leader

What Taryell brought to the conversation

Taryell Simmons says his most important title is Dad, and bringing his daughter, now six, into the world changed how he looks at life and how he creates. Born in New York and raised in Washington, DC by a father who immigrated from Nigeria, he grew up between Nigerian culture at home and Black American culture outside it, and later in life learned to embrace that as a gift. He does diversity, equity and inclusion work, went on to head equity, diversity and inclusion for an entire county, and started a podcast to normalize Black excellence in its many forms so young people can see what is possible for them. Niiamah Ashong describes the tremendous heart he brings to everything he does.

What emerged

The central thread is courage in connection. During lockdown, when no one at his workplace was talking about what was happening in the world, Taryell Simmons found the courage to hold space for his team to have an honest dialogue about what everyone was experiencing, which he calls the hardest thing he has ever had to do. That first conversation led to more sessions across a 20,000-person organization. Niiamah Ashong names it as showing up as a leader in a moment when people were searching for leadership, and Taryell Simmons roots it in his daughter: he decided he would be a voice and create the spaces that need to be created.

Questions this episode answers

How can growing up between two cultures become a leadership gift?

Taryell Simmons grew up between Nigerian culture at home and Black American culture outside it, without fully belonging to either. He came to see having both cultures as a gift that lets him see how connections create belonging, and he says both can be true at the same time.

What is the difference between a safe space and a brave space?

Taryell Simmons describes his calling as creating deep bonds between people so they feel seen, heard and valued. He wants to create not just safe spaces but brave spaces, where people can bring the things that are not so pretty, have breakthroughs and build trust with one another.

How can a leader open an honest conversation about race at work?

Taryell Simmons faced his own insecurity and fears and held space for his team to talk about what everyone was experiencing and when each person first learned about race, so they could understand each other. That conversation led to more sessions across a 20,000-person organization and to his role heading equity, diversity and inclusion for the whole county.

Why does representation matter for young people?

Taryell Simmons heard from the youth he spoke to that they had limiting beliefs about what they could be, based on the examples around them. He started his podcast to normalize Black excellence in its many forms, because, as he puts it, the next group of leaders can't be what they can't see.

How do you keep creating yourself as a leader?

Taryell Simmons says he is in a forever state of evolution because he is always learning and investing in becoming the best version of himself. He grounds himself in not living someone else's life, asking who he is now, who he is trying to become and how he wants to grow.

In their words

Celebrate the things that are uniquely different that make up this lovely tapestry of us being together in community.

Taryell Simmons

I am going to be a voice, I am going to create spaces, I'm no longer going to play small.

Taryell Simmons

They can't be what they can't see.

Taryell Simmons

Key moments

03:08 – The tremendous heart he brings

05:45 – Dad is his most important title

07:17 – Growing up between two cultures

13:29 – The gumbo metaphor for inclusion

16:41 – A calling to create human connection

18:45 – Leaning into vulnerability

22:25 – The hardest conversation he led

30:43 – Deciding to be a voice

36:56 – Why he started his podcast

45:15 – How he creates himself

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Alisa Manjarrez, who runs a marketing agency, hosts a podcast and leads an executive coaching practice, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about letting the world know all that she is. She shares how she has become even more okay with being too hard to explain, and the book that is starting to brew in her. What emerged is that showing up in her own way is exactly what helps other people feel they belong.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Alisa Manjarrez, Marketing agency leader, podcast host and executive coach
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released November 29, 2022
• Format: conversation, 50 minutes
• Topics: Wearing many hats, A passion-packed life, Early indicators and burnout, Faith and a book in the making, Being seen for what a person chose, Showing up so others belong

What Alisa brought to the conversation

Alisa Manjarrez lives what she calls a passion-packed life. She runs a marketing agency with a team of creative friends, telling stories with Fortune 500 companies and producing podcasts, hosts a podcast about outsmarting the game to advance in a career, and has an executive coaching practice. Niiamah Ashong describes her as someone who brings every part of herself into a relationship, showing him that friendship and real work can share one relationship, and that relationships where everything is on the table have the longest legs. A book is starting to take shape about how to co-create a life with God, and the layers she wants to share include her faith, her career drive, her coaching, her creativity and her philosophy on life.

What emerged

The central thread is being seen in full. At a recent business event for Latina women, Alisa Manjarrez didn't feel represented even though many of her layers were in the room, and for the first time she felt alone with power: she decided it was time to share all of herself. A friend once pointed out that by simply showing up on a podcast with her brother, she was representing people like her. She now sees that when she shows up in her own way, someone else relates and feels like they belong, and Niiamah Ashong names the gift in that: in choosing to show up, they create space for other people.

Questions this episode answers

How do you explain what you do when you wear many hats?

Alisa Manjarrez says she has always had her hand in ten things, which makes it hard to explain who she is and what she does, and she doesn't feel true to herself when she's only doing one thing. Her growth has come from being even more okay with it being too hard to explain or too hard for people to understand.

How can a leader with many projects tell when they're taking on too much?

Alisa Manjarrez separates small, avoidable mistakes from burnout. The small mistakes are early indicators of too much on her plate for a period of time, while burnout builds over a long time and often came from doing things for other people without respecting her own boundaries. Noticing the indicators earlier, she says, has made her burnout less over the years.

What does it mean to be seen for who you've chosen to be?

Niiamah Ashong says that being categorized by things he didn't choose, like his skin tone, misses the mark, and that what matters is seeing and honoring the things a person has chosen. He connects it to Alisa Manjarrez's experience at an event that covered many of her layers, where she still didn't feel represented.

Where do you find belonging when you often feel like the only one?

Alisa Manjarrez feels most at home with her immediate family, and over the years she has learned to find friends who each share some of her favorite things, from her culture to going deep on faith to art. She says she has learned to take advantage of the beauty of other people despite differences.

How does showing up as yourself help other people belong?

Alisa Manjarrez says she can't stay in the feeling of being the only one for long, because when she shows up in her own way, someone else relates and feels like they belong. Niiamah Ashong adds that people have told him they had never seen a Black coach before, and that by choosing to show up, they create space for others.

In their words

I'm even more okay with it being too hard to explain or too hard for people to understand.

Alisa Manjarrez

When I do show up in my own way, someone else relates and feels like they belong.

Alisa Manjarrez

In choosing to be and choosing to show up, we actually create a lot of space for some other people.

Niiamah Ashong

Key moments

02:37 – Gratitude and the power of friendship

05:43 – Always having a hand in ten things

09:23 – Okay with being hard to explain

09:54 – Heralding every title

14:05 – Early indicators versus burnout

19:46 – The book that is brewing

21:21 – Feeling alone with power

32:46 – Being seen for what a person chose

37:29 – Not supposed to be here, and yet

42:38 – Showing up so others belong

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Coach Kym, a coach whose career has run through entertainment, sports and corporate communications, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about going against the grain. She shares how she came to own the title of coach on her own terms, without a certification or anyone else's methodology. What emerged is a simple practice for leaders: walking away from the herd, choosing themselves first, and treating every result as either a win or a lesson.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Coach Kym, Coach with roots in entertainment, sports and corporate communications
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released November 24, 2022
• Format: conversation, 40 minutes
• Topics: Owning the title of coach, Fulfillment through others' success, Going against the grain, Win or learn, Choosing herself first

What Coach brought to the conversation

Coach Kym has coached people throughout her career, from crews of dancers, music artists and performers in entertainment, to a sports label, to the corporate communications agency she ran, where the best part was nurturing her team. She began working wholly as a coach in 2018, and her corporate clients told her she was naturally motivational and nurturing and liked to find the strengths in people. Her work with clients comes from her own expertise and experience, and she says she does not stop until the people she works with are incredible. She is experimenting with new work about defying what the world says people should be, and her fire comes from watching other people fly.

What emerged

The central shift is from earning the title of coach to owning it. Coach Kym read the books and took the courses, found none of it felt like her, and chose to walk in a different direction. When someone who knew her from her entertainment years, and whom she hadn't seen in 15 years, told her she had always been the coach, everything fell into place, because it's who she is, not the methodology or the title. Niiamah Ashong heard in her story the path he calls owning your outlier and blazing your trail, and they landed on the same practice: choosing themselves again and again.

Questions this episode answers

Can you be a coach without a coaching certification?

Coach Kym is not certified by any coaching authority, and at first she thought that meant she couldn't call herself a coach. Everything she does with clients comes from her own expertise and experience, and when she signed her first high-level client and did it her way, without following anybody else's methodology, the client got incredible results, so she did it again and again.

Where does a coach's fulfillment come from?

Coach Kym had incredible success in her career, yet she didn't feel she had quite made it even when everyone around her said she had. She recently realized her fulfillment comes from the success of others, and seeing someone she works with say they did it fulfills her far beyond any stage she has performed on.

Why does going against the grain matter for leaders?

Coach Kym says finding one's alignment is terrifying because it likely means going against the majority and its top 10 tips for success. When she walked away from the herd and blazed her own trail, her work started to feel like joy, because she was curating the experience from her own learnings and data. She says someone who isn't aligned with what they do may be working hard, but isn't doing their best work.

Is choosing yourself first selfish?

Coach Kym says many people shy away from choosing themselves because it feels selfish, but it's the complete opposite: choosing oneself first puts a person in a position to be so much to so many people and serve on a much greater level. Niiamah Ashong describes the same practice in his own work as choosing himself over and over again.

How can a leader turn every result into a lesson?

Coach Kym says there's no way she can lose or fail, because either she wins or she learns, and she welcomed mistakes because each one got her closer to getting it right. Niiamah Ashong tells his team they need to go beyond being willing to fail to wanting to fail, because it's about living, experiencing, learning and choosing more of what works.

In their words

My fulfillment isn't my own success, it's the success of others, and that is why I'm a coach.

Coach Kym

There's no way I can lose, there's no way I can fail, because either we win or we learn.

Coach Kym

You have to choose you first before you can go out there and be the power that you need to be for others.

Coach Kym

Key moments

06:41 – Leaning into being a coach

07:45 – Fulfillment through others' success

13:28 – Coaching through every career

18:09 – Stepping fully into coaching

21:16 – Signing her first high-level client

22:47 – You've always been the coach

26:26 – Going against the grain

28:31 – Win or learn

34:54 – Choosing herself first

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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David Taylor-Klaus, a professional coach and the creator of Better Human Better Life, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about what it takes to live a better life. He shares why he markets by giving people what they need rather than poking at their pain, and walks through the five elements of his approach: grace, space, flow, knowing and aliveness. What emerged is his core belief that the best way for a person to get better at what they do is to get better at being who they are at their core.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: David Taylor-Klaus, Professional coach and creator of Better Human Better Life
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released November 22, 2022
• Format: conversation, 44 minutes
• Topics: Being before doing, Life first, with fabulous work in it, Marketing without poking the pain, Grace and space, Flow and inner knowing, Expanding aliveness

What David brought to the conversation

David Taylor-Klaus is starting his 14th year as a professional coach, and Niiamah Ashong describes him as a masterful coach and a masterful human he turns to with questions about business, integrity and becoming a father. He introduces himself as a husband, parent and friend who gets paid to be a coach; he and his wife share offices, have been married over 30 years, and have three kids and a daughter-in-law. He has been involved in the advertising and marketing space since the mid-to-late 1990s, when he launched an internet strategy and web development company. Now he is creating Better Human Better Life, a framework and a community that make conscious the process he has been taking his clients through.

What emerged

The central idea is that being comes before doing. David Taylor-Klaus believes the best way to get better at doing is to get better at being who a person is at their core, and his five elements map how that happens: grace and space feed each other, flow lets inner knowing surface, and aliveness expands each time through the loop. Niiamah Ashong heard in it a principled path to aliveness he had not heard anyone describe before, and saw it as a light on a path people are already walking.

Questions this episode answers

What does it mean to be a better human?

David Taylor-Klaus says most people try to get better at doing what they do, but the best way is to get better at being who they are at their core. Better human isn't better in the eyes of anyone else, a culture or an influencer: it starts with where a person is out of alignment with their values and where messages from socialization or education are off target with who they are, and as that gets cleaner, everything they do in the world gets better.

How can a business market without poking at people's pain?

David Taylor-Klaus has worked in the advertising and marketing space since the mid-to-late 1990s, and he no longer wants to play the game of poking at what wakes people up at three in the morning, or marketing chocolate and then delivering broccoli. He wants to market, sell and serve by giving people who want what they need exactly that, and he frames it simply: everyone has their own language for what they want to be different, and all of it fits under a better life.

What are the five elements of Better Human Better Life?

David Taylor-Klaus names grace, space, flow, knowing and aliveness. Grace, a form of acceptance and empathy for oneself, for others and for one's circumstances, opens up space, and space makes room for more grace, so together they are the engine. Flow lets inner, somatic knowing surface, and as each element grows, aliveness expands in a loop a person goes through again and again.

How can a leader get into flow more often?

David Taylor-Klaus uses breath and meditation: he meditates every morning and takes time to breathe and get centered before every coaching call, podcast appearance or time on stage, because being fully present is when he creates the impact he is here to create. He also records client sessions so both he and the client can stay in flow instead of taking notes. Niiamah Ashong connected this to grace: giving oneself ten minutes to get ready instead of insisting on already being ready.

What does it look like to build your world around life rather than work?

David Taylor-Klaus introduces himself as a husband, parent and friend who gets paid to be a coach, and he says his greatest accomplishments live in his personal world. His world is oriented around having a life, and part of that life is doing some fabulous work out in the world.

In their words

I have a fundamental belief that blank space is the container within which, and the only container within which, we can create and co-create with the universe.

David Taylor-Klaus

I want to market and sell and provide and serve by giving folks who want what they need what they need.

David Taylor-Klaus

The best way to get better at doing what you do is to get better at being who you be, who you are at your core.

David Taylor-Klaus

Key moments

05:44 – Introducing himself by who he is

07:17 – A life with fabulous work in it

08:51 – Blank space as a container

10:56 – Marketing without poking the pain

15:36 – Being before doing

19:48 – Musical chairs for the right seat

23:27 – Five elements of a better life

26:05 – Grace and space as the engine

28:11 – How aliveness expands

33:53 – Breath as a path to flow

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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April Frazier, a confidence and leadership coach who calls herself a guide, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about the power behind truth telling. She describes herself as a beacon for people, often women, who are ready to tell the full truth about themselves, including their strengths. What emerged is her own realization that her power is in flow, and that her gift works best when she simply gets to be herself.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: April Frazier, Confidence and leadership coach who calls herself a guide
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released November 17, 2022
• Format: conversation, 33 minutes
• Topics: Telling the whole truth, Seeing people's greatness, Being known well, Changing the lens on weakness, Power in flow, Her own path over the playbook

What April brought to the conversation

April Frazier works with people, often women, who want to tell the truth but are scared, so they tell only the polite, palatable version that doesn't unearth any bodies. She sees that people tend to view themselves only through their mistakes and weaknesses, and that many of the gifts they paint in a negative lens are really positive once they change the lens. Seeing and saying the truth comes effortlessly to her: she recently told a woman she works alongside that the job was too small for her and that she's a leader, and people have come back years later to repeat almost verbatim what she said. Niiamah Ashong describes her as a truth teller of greatness, someone who sees people in their greatness and tells them so.

What emerged

Partway through the conversation, April Frazier has a realization: when she became a professional coach, she started trying to monetize her gift through webinars, sequences and everything the gurus say to do, and it took her out of flow. She recalls being told in college that when she tries to do something it loses its naturalness, the same way another language flows for her when she simply enjoys a conversation. Niiamah Ashong reflects it back to her: emotionally she already knows where she needs to be, and it's the intellect that reaches for the logical path others prescribe. He leaves room for the kind of greatness that comes when she doesn't even have to try.

Questions this episode answers

Why do people only tell the polite version of their truth?

April Frazier sees people who want to write the book, become a coach or launch the business, but who only want to tell the truth that's polite and doesn't unearth any bodies. She helps those who are ready tell the full truth, not just about what they've been through but about their strength.

How can a leader see their weaknesses differently?

April Frazier says many people only see themselves through the mistakes they made, the weaknesses they have and the ways they're not enough. Many of the gifts they paint in a negative lens are actually really positive if they change the lens and get into the energy that can empower them.

How do you tell someone a hard truth about their potential?

For April Frazier it comes naturally: something that seems obvious to her can open a door that was locked for the other person. Niiamah Ashong describes this as a third way between staying silent and bluntly keeping it real, where she delivers the truth honestly and genuinely without holding back.

Why might a borrowed marketing playbook not feel right?

April Frazier realized that trying to monetize her gift with webinars, sequences and the steps the gurus prescribe takes her out of flow, and her power is in flow. Niiamah Ashong suggests that emotionally she knows where she needs to be, while intellectually she keeps reaching for the logical path others follow.

What's the difference between being well known and being known well?

Niiamah Ashong says he has always known how to be well known but not how to be known well. He is working on it by first asking whether he knows himself well, because he can't expect anyone else to if he isn't attuned to himself.

In their words

You're a leader. It's always going to feel uncomfortable when you're playing small.

April Frazier

My power is in flow.

April Frazier

I would say emotionally you know where you need to be.

Niiamah Ashong

Key moments

03:36 – An island, a volcano and flow

08:48 – Well known versus known well

10:51 – A beacon for truth telling

11:54 – Seeing strength, not just weakness

13:30 – Telling a coworker she's a leader

17:35 – A third way to tell truth

21:11 – A truth teller of greatness

24:15 – Her realization about flow

30:08 – Emotion already knows the way

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Tony Martignetti, author of Climbing the Right Mountain, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about what it takes to achieve a goal. He describes himself as a grounded optimist and a curious adventurer who helps leaders and their teams reconnect with what is important to them. What emerged is a picture of optimism as preparation: dreaming and then doing, surrounding oneself with the right people, and remembering that slow is fast.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Tony Martignetti, Author of Climbing the Right Mountain who helps leaders and their teams lead with purpose
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released November 15, 2022
• Format: conversation, 40 minutes
• Topics: Grounded optimism, Realism, probability and possibility, Speaking in first person, Conversation as co-creation, Preparation and connections, Lessons from climbing a mountain

What Tony brought to the conversation

Tony Martignetti helps rising leaders, accomplished leaders and their teams lead with purpose and feel more fulfilled in their lives and their work, reconnecting with what is important to them and reigniting their spark. He is the author of Climbing the Right Mountain, a book Niiamah Ashong says rewired something in his mind and made him want to create a book of his own. He calls himself a grounded optimist and a curious adventurer, and Niiamah Ashong describes the lightness and depth he brings to a conversation. After saying out loud that he would climb a mountain he had always wanted to climb, he was on that mountain a year later.

What emerged

The central insight is what grounded optimism looks like in practice. Tony Martignetti grounds people so they feel calm, safe and connected to their foundation, and then helps them reach for what is possible. He compares a good conversation to an accordion: stretching people out to the edges of their possibilities, then bringing them back in to what they can act on. Niiamah Ashong, who was an actuary, adds that many self-described realists overly discount the probability of a positive outcome, and that a realist can actively create plans to increase the chance that things go right. Tony Martignetti builds on it: success is where opportunity meets preparation and connections.

Questions this episode answers

What does it mean to be a grounded optimist?

Tony Martignetti says the grounding comes first: helping people feel calm, connected to their foundation and safe enough to slow down and look at their lives from a different angle. The optimism is the reach, looking to the sky to see what is possible, with hope for something new and exciting in the future.

Is a realist really a pessimist?

Niiamah Ashong, who was an actuary, says many people who call themselves realists overly discount the probability of a positive event and overly inflate the probability of a negative one. He calls himself a realist in a different sense: he recognizes both the chance that things go wrong and the chance they go right, and actively creates plans to increase the probability that things go right.

How do you prepare yourself to do something you've never done?

Tony Martignetti built his confidence as a workshop facilitator by connecting with people who were skilled at it, learning the ropes in a comfortable environment and doing it repeatedly over time. He says he now does at least two workshops a month on his own, something he says wasn't in his lexicon five years ago.

Why does speaking in first person change a conversation?

Tony Martignetti notes that thought leaders and coaches often speak in a collective way, and that owning a statement in the first person lets a person feel the emotion more deeply. Niiamah Ashong invited the two of them to keep the rest of the conversation in first person, and then noticed that the collective version of a statement sounded like a principle that cannot be touched, while the first person version made him curious.

What does climbing a mountain teach about reaching a big goal?

Tony Martignetti says no one goes fast when climbing a mountain, because there is less oxygen at higher altitude, so slow is fast and that is how climbers get to the top. He also points to constantly readjusting, checking gear and mindset for the next leg, and having the right people around.

In their words

We always live in our own world, our reality is created just in our heads.

Tony Martignetti

I don't want you to just dream, I want you to dream and I want you to do.

Tony Martignetti

You don't go fast when you're climbing a mountain, every step is just one step at a time.

Tony Martignetti

Key moments

01:35 – The book that inspired Niiamah

06:13 – A grounded optimist and curious adventurer

09:21 – A surprising conversation with a colleague

13:32 – Loneliness and deep connection

17:42 – Keeping the conversation in first person

22:19 – The accordion of expansion and contraction

27:26 – Why some realists are pessimists

30:29 – Preparing to lead workshops

33:09 – Climbing the right mountain for real

35:15 – Slow is fast on the mountain

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Georgina Halabi, a coach to highly successful executives, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast for a conversation about play. She draws a clear line between playing and performing, and the two put it into practice live with a pair of Marvel bobble heads. What emerged is a picture of her eye reading gift reaching many people while she stays focused on one person at a time.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Georgina Halabi, Coach to highly successful executives, with a background in advertising and technology
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released November 10, 2022
• Format: conversation, 51 minutes
• Topics: Play versus performance, Presence and flow, Pattern interrupts in hard moments, Quieting the mind, Eye reading as a superpower, Amplifying one-to-one work

What Georgina brought to the conversation

Georgina Halabi coaches highly successful, highly aware executives on accelerating their career success with well-being, not one at the expense of the other. Her background is in advertising and technology. She lives in the UK and lived in Asia for 18 years, which is where she and Niiamah Ashong met, in Singapore. Niiamah Ashong describes her as someone who brings humor along with spiritual awareness, coaching awareness and agility. Her superpowers, as she names them, are reading people's eyes and helping people see their own greatness and wisdom, so they can switch from self-doubt into compassion and wisdom.

What emerged

Georgina Halabi names the distinction at the heart of the conversation: as a society, people have stopped playing and are only performing. Performing, as Niiamah Ashong describes it in the moment, clenches the body and narrows ideas, and she adds that it kicks a person out of presence and flow. Niiamah Ashong notices that she keeps saying her eye reading works with only one person at a time and challenges that as diminishing the superpower. She takes up his image of a stadium, where she helps one person while the music is felt by everyone else, and she accepts his invitation to record an eye reading session and amplify it.

Questions this episode answers

What is the difference between playing and performing?

Georgina Halabi describes performing as playing for everyone else, with a level of expectation to hit all the right notes, while playing is a heart opening experience that is curious, connected and present. She is clear that people can still have goals and outcomes they want to achieve; the difference is the energy that goes into performing.

How can play shift your mindset in a hard moment?

Georgina Halabi shares a memory from about 25 years ago when, in a painful moment in a relationship, she threw a block of cheddar cheese into a river. The moment was so ridiculous that she laughed out loud, and it gave her the sense that she will always be all right, no matter what life throws at her.

What happens in the body when you feel pressure to perform?

Niiamah Ashong describes feeling clenched, with a narrowing of ideas and an unspoken expectation to deliver the best, which pulls him into thinking questions ahead instead of being with the other person. Georgina Halabi adds that performing kicks a person out of presence and flow, with cortisol and adrenaline running.

Can one-to-one coaching reach more people without losing its depth?

Niiamah Ashong says scaling one person at a time is very possible, using the image of a singer in a stadium who sings to the one person who really needs to hear the song. Georgina Halabi takes that up: she focuses on helping one person while the music plants seeds in many others, without being attached to performing to everyone.

What helps people move out of self-doubt?

Georgina Halabi says people have stopped believing in themselves and are full of self-doubt. Her answer starts with quieting the mind: when people quiet their minds, they switch on a part of the brain that is resourceful and creative, and from there they see that they are not the problem but the solution.

In their words

I think as a society we've stopped playing and we are only performing.

Georgina Halabi

That to me is how play can shift your whole mindset.

Georgina Halabi

I'm not attached to performing to everyone, I'm there helping that one person.

Georgina Halabi

Key moments

01:03 – Picking the guitar back up

05:49 – Who she is and what she does

07:23 – Playing versus performing

10:57 – What performing feels like

17:07 – A memory of throwing cheese

21:17 – Marvel bobble heads join in

24:55 – Naming her superpowers

29:35 – Challenging the one-at-a-time story

32:10 – Playing to one person in a stadium

40:29 – Saying yes to an eye reading session

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

Work with Niiamah: 1:1 with Niiamah | World of Difference

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Amicie de Quatrebarbes, a veterinarian by training and by heart with a passion for poultry production, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about the shift from going with the flow to leading her own life. After years of moving between countries with one company, she stepped back to ask herself the right questions, gave herself a year to work on her own project and learned that anyone is allowed to ask questions. What emerged is a clearer sense of her strengths: she is in her element in conversation, she loves connecting people, and she knows the leadership role she wants next.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Amicie de Quatrebarbes, Veterinarian by training and by heart, focused on animal health and poultry production
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released November 8, 2022
• Format: conversation, 45 minutes
• Topics: Leading her life, not just living it, Permission to ask questions, Starting over in new countries, Conversation as her element, Building on her strengths, Knowing the role she wants

What Amicie brought to the conversation

Amicie de Quatrebarbes is a vet by training and by heart who loves production animals, especially poultry production. She lived and worked in several countries, then took things into her own hands, working with Niiamah Ashong to ask herself the right questions and giving herself a year to work on her own project; her work has since come back to animal health. Along the way she approached people on her own terms and met general managers of poultry companies, some of them very large. Niiamah Ashong remembers being struck, when they first met, by how much passion, understanding and possibility she brought to a subject few people talk about, always grounded in the farmers she wanted to support.

What emerged

The phrase that stood out to Niiamah Ashong was leading her life, not just living it: for Amicie de Quatrebarbes, it means being the one who makes the decisions rather than taking orders from a company, family or friends. A key shift came from realizing she didn't need to be an expert or have a specific status to ask questions, because everybody loves to be listened to and you learn while they talk. She has found she is in her element in face-to-face conversation, and Niiamah Ashong points out how she increases the odds of good things happening by asking early for the kind of experience that suits her best.

Questions this episode answers

What does it mean to lead your life rather than just live it?

Amicie de Quatrebarbes compares it to a company: there are the people who make the decisions and the people who take orders. Leading your life means not taking orders from the outside, whether from a company, family or friends, and being the one at the top who makes the decisions.

Do you need to be an expert to reach out to people in an industry?

Amicie de Quatrebarbes once thought she had to be an expert to be entitled to ask questions. She came to realize that anyone is allowed to ask, that people are always happy to talk because everybody loves to be listened to, and that it's never a waste of time because while they talk, you learn as well.

Why can moving somewhere new start to feel like repeating the same thing?

Amicie de Quatrebarbes says each move to a new country was amazing at first, but each time she had to build the roots and the top of the tree all over again, which took double the effort. Niiamah Ashong notes that going somewhere new doesn't always mean having a new experience, and that restarting can become a thrilling trap, one she recognized and stepped out of.

Why do face-to-face conversations matter so much?

Amicie de Quatrebarbes found that once she is talking with someone in front of her, she is in her element and it flows, while a four-line email could take her two days to get right. Niiamah Ashong sees this as engineering luck: putting herself in the environment that best suits her talents.

How does knowing your strengths change a job search?

After the years she spent getting to know herself, Amicie de Quatrebarbes says her job search is much easier: she knows what role she can do and be good at, and she has a much better way of presenting herself. She is looking for a leadership and management role in poultry production where she can connect the dots between people.

In their words

Everybody loves to be listened to.

Amicie de Quatrebarbes

You never really know what your impact's going to be.

Niiamah Ashong

So you want to always keep focusing on what you're good at, what you're successful at.

Amicie de Quatrebarbes

Key moments

02:04 – A passion few people talk about

04:40 – From going with the flow

06:14 – You don't need to be an expert

08:52 – You never know your impact

14:11 – Building roots in each new country

19:51 – What leading your life means

23:00 – A year leading her own project

30:57 – In her element face to face

33:33 – Capitalizing on her strengths

38:13 – The role she wants next

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

Work with Niiamah: 1:1 with Niiamah | World of Difference

Continue into Outlier’s Edge World:

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