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Huseyin Bikim joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to share his story of self-growth, self-love and meditation. He describes the moment he switched off the outside noise, looked inside himself and immersed himself fully in the work of growing. What emerged is the role of curiosity in seeking, the idea that the move from selfishness to selflessness starts with self-love, and a shared wish to create spaces where people get to be heard.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Huseyin Bikim, Shares his story of self-growth, self-love and meditation
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released April 19, 2022
• Format: conversation, 59 minutes
• Topics: Looking inward, Immersion over dabbling, Being a seeker, Meditation and stillness, Self-love before selflessness, Spaces where people are heard

What Huseyin brought to the conversation

Huseyin Bikim stands for selflessness over selfishness and the greater good of the collective, lifting people up so everyone can walk forward together, because he believes there don't have to be losers. Before he turned inward he worked as a project manager at a translation startup and as a soccer agent, which he still is, and he says he identified with what was occurring outside of him. During the lockdowns he switched off the noise, looked inside himself for the first time, and committed fully: courses, books, handwritten notes put up around the house, and meditation for 15 minutes every day for months on end. Today, when people reach out to him, he lends a listening ear, holds space, accepts them where they are and helps them find their own truth.

What emerged

Niiamah Ashong names what made Huseyin Bikim's change work: he didn't dabble, he immersed himself, and he moved as a seeker, actively following his curiosity rather than waiting for answers to arrive. Huseyin Bikim adds that the move from selfishness to selflessness can only happen once a person arrives at self-love, and Niiamah Ashong invites him to receive support as fully as he gives it. Looking ahead, Huseyin Bikim wants his message to touch people and ignite their curiosity, and the conversation turns toward co-creating spaces where others can be heard.

Questions this episode answers

How do you build a meditation practice that lasts?

Huseyin Bikim learned a specific meditation technique from a book and sat for 15 minutes every single day, day after day for months on end. Over that time he felt a progression, as if something was happening, and he says that once you feel that, you just want to keep going.

What is the difference between being open and being a seeker?

Niiamah Ashong describes being open as being receptive to whatever comes, while being a seeker is proactive: when something comes your way, you commit to it and go looking for what else can come in. For Huseyin Bikim, curiosity is the key, knowing there are answers out there to the questions he has and knowing where to find them.

Why does self-love come before selflessness?

Huseyin Bikim says you can only make the move from selfishness to selflessness once you have arrived at a place of self-love, and that it took him a long time to get there. Niiamah Ashong adds that seeing someone take care of themselves can expand what others believe is available to them.

Why does immersion matter when you set out to change yourself?

Niiamah Ashong points out that many people dabble and then wonder why they don't have the results they want, while Huseyin Bikim bought the programs and actually worked them. Huseyin Bikim says the key was applying what he learned, because knowledge won't be any good if you don't put it into action.

Where do new answers and creative ideas come from?

Huseyin Bikim says he understood more in silence than from any spoken or written word, and that it is a misperception that finding an answer requires thinking about it. In his view, creative inspiration comes from silence and stillness, which is where everything is revealed.

In their words

I understood more in silence than I've understood from any language or any spoken word or written word.

Huseyin Bikim

You have to love yourself and then you can move from selfishness to selflessness.

Huseyin Bikim

My truth is my truth but everybody's truth is their own.

Huseyin Bikim

Key moments

02:36 – What Huseyin Bikim stands for

07:44 – Life before turning inward

11:20 – Switching off the outside noise

16:27 – Fifteen minutes a day for months

20:07 – Putting knowledge into action

24:11 – Being a seeker, not just open

25:46 – Curiosity as the key

38:42 – Answers found in silence and stillness

42:20 – Self-love before selflessness

53:15 – Co-creating spaces to be heard

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Jasmin Badd, a serial entrepreneur and marketing strategist, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about confidence and not accepting less than she deserves. She shares how she went from opening a salon at 21 to coaching coaches on marketing, and why she is now pivoting toward helping women build their relationship with themselves first. What emerged is her own confirmation that the pivot is where she is supposed to be.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Jasmin Badd, Serial entrepreneur and marketing strategist
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released April 14, 2022
• Format: conversation, 41 minutes
• Topics: Confidence and self-worth, Never settling, How you do anything is how you do everything, Pivoting a business toward purpose, Raising your standards, Becoming an author

What Jasmin brought to the conversation

Jasmin Badd has never had a 9 to 5: she started as a hairstylist, opened her first salon at 21, and retired from behind the chair in 2020 to further her career in marketing. She describes herself as the coaches' marketing coach, helping coaches build out their programs and market them through creative marketing, and she also helps entrepreneurs build, market and brand their businesses. During the pandemic she shared her story on social media, so many people asked her to write a book that she did, and she also created a planner. She sees her purpose as bigger than herself: helping women see their greatest self, become their most confident self, and then market their gifts, talents and purpose.

What emerged

Early on, Niiamah Ashong noticed that Jasmin Badd led with her marketing and mentioned her book second, and when the conversation turned to the book a different side of her came forward. She named it herself: the book is more of her than her accomplishments, and it may need to come first now. The thread running through it is her belief that how you do anything is how you do everything, so a woman's relationship with herself shapes her relationships in business too. She left the conversation sure that her pivot toward events and community for women is the right decision.

Questions this episode answers

Why does a leader's relationship with themselves affect their business?

Jasmin Badd believes how you do anything is how you do everything, so the way someone is in personal relationships is how they will be in business relationships. She says that if people don't believe in themselves and aren't confident, there is no way they can be successful in what they want to do.

What does it mean to never settle for less than you're worth?

Jasmin Badd says that if you're willing to accept the bare minimum of anything, maybe that's exactly what you deserve. Her standards are higher now: if something isn't what she wants or needs and isn't serving her, she moves along, and she says not settling has taken her further in her life and her business.

How do you know a business pivot is the right one?

For Jasmin Badd, the confirmation came when the conversation went straight to her book rather than her marketing, because the book is who she truly is outside of her career. She is pivoting toward events and community that help women become their most confident selves before marketing their gifts.

What makes someone an outlier?

Jasmin Badd says she is an outlier because her purpose and passion are bigger than herself: what she is great at isn't for her to keep but to help other people. Niiamah Ashong adds that everyone on the planet is unique, so in a sense everyone is an outlier together.

In their words

How you do anything is how you do everything.

Jasmin Badd

I wish so many other women had that type of confidence to not settle.

Jasmin Badd

You accept what you deserve and you deserve what you accept.

Jasmin Badd

Key moments

01:35 – From salon owner to marketing coach

09:24 – What makes her an outlier

10:25 – Naming her purpose

14:04 – How you do anything

17:11 – Why the book comes first now

23:25 – Events and community for women

24:28 – The confidence to not settle

25:31 – You accept what you deserve

29:37 – Raising her standards

38:55 – Her takeaway on the pivot

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Jennifer Eikenhorst, a high school math teacher, speaker and host of the Accidental Hope Podcast, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about taking purpose from pain after a tragic accident in 2016. She shares how she moved from asking "why me" to asking "what now", with her faith at the center of how she overcame. What emerged is a question she asks every day, "who do I want to be now," and a shift from asking permission to bring her whole self to simply owning it.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Jennifer Eikenhorst, High school math teacher, speaker, host of the Accidental Hope Podcast and hope ambassador
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released April 12, 2022
• Format: conversation, 49 minutes
• Topics: Taking purpose from pain, Replacing labels with truth, From "why me" to "what now", "Who do I want to be now", Keeping it organic, Ownership over permission

What Jennifer brought to the conversation

Jennifer Eikenhorst is a wife, mom, high school math teacher, blogger, speaker and host of the Accidental Hope Podcast. She was one of the first people in her family to graduate from college and earn a master's degree, and as a teacher she is drawn to at-risk youth who think they can't learn math. After a tragic accident in 2016 in which a man lost his life, she chose to take purpose from the pain, centered on her faith and on honoring him. She is an advocate for C.A.D.I.s (Causing Accidental Death or Injury) and a hope ambassador as seen on Red Table Talk, and she started her podcast because there was no safe place to discuss this experience.

What emerged

The question at the center of Jennifer Eikenhorst's path is one she asks every day: "who do I want to be now." She moved from asking "why me" to asking "what now," owning what happened without walking in shame, and rediscovering herself through journaling, the things she loved as a child and her faith. Niiamah Ashong reflected back the wholeness she brings and offered a shift from permission to ownership: rather than asking whether she may share her faith on bigger stages, she brings it with her. She called it a good thought shift for herself.

Questions this episode answers

How do you take purpose from pain?

Jennifer Eikenhorst chose to live her life in the best way possible and find a way to honor the person who lost his life. She changed "why me" into "what now," asking what is within her power to make a difference, and says that is how she makes every decision.

How do you replace a label that doesn't honor who you are?

Jennifer Eikenhorst says that if you hear a label that is not honoring to you as a human being, you have to learn to replace it with truth. For her, that truth goes back to her creator and who she is at her innermost being.

What question helps rebuild your identity after everything changes?

Jennifer Eikenhorst asks herself, "who do I want to be now." Her answer includes being a compassionate person, showing up for her kids and her husband, knowing God more and seeing beauty in her world, and she says it is a choice every single day.

How does a leader keep their work authentic as their platform grows?

For Jennifer Eikenhorst, organic means being led by her heart and not forcing things, because doors open and close for a reason. Her work needs to serve people, serve the Lord and honor the man who lost his life, and her first question to producers is whether she can share her faith.

What is the difference between permission and ownership?

Niiamah Ashong noticed that asking whether it is okay to bring her faith in is a question of permission, while ownership is simply bringing her faith into the conversation. Jennifer Eikenhorst called it a great mindset, and said she can thank people for inviting her and bring her faith with her.

In their words

Those places where you're in the pit can become your greatest passion.

Jennifer Eikenhorst

This is the question I had to ask myself, who do I want to be now.

Jennifer Eikenhorst

I want my story to be beauty from ashes.

Jennifer Eikenhorst

Key moments

03:40 – Taking purpose from pain

05:46 – Where her overcoming began

06:17 – Teaching at-risk youth

11:01 – Seeing her in her completeness

13:35 – Replacing labels with truth

17:45 – From "why me" to "what now"

25:35 – Life isn't lived in bullet points

28:39 – "Who do I want to be now"

40:36 – What keeps her work organic

46:49 – Bringing her faith with her

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Kehkashan Basu, an advocate for people and planet, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about how empathy for people and the planet felt normal to her from childhood. She shares how she began her advocacy at seven, founded an organization at 12 and now works across 26 countries. What emerged is her conviction that someone has to take the first step, and that change works best when it is local, holistic and led by the people closest to it.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Kehkashan Basu, Advocate for people and planet who founded a youth-led organization at age 12
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released April 8, 2022
• Format: conversation, 52 minutes
• Topics: Empathy for people and planet, Taking the first step, Intergenerational solidarity, Intersectional, holistic change, Local leaders as the source of change, Rejecting one-size-fits-all solutions

What Kehkashan brought to the conversation

Kehkashan Basu started her work for people and planet at seven, with neighborhood recycling campaigns and visits to schools, and was invited to speak at her first international conference at 11. At 12 she invited five friends to join her and founded an organization that creates a platform of learning that turns into ground level action, and it is coming up on its tenth year. The organization now works in 26 countries through a decentralized, non-hierarchical network in which local chapter heads lead the work and the organization acts as a catalyst. Her approach addresses issues across the sustainability spectrum together, from equality and education to biodiversity, nuclear disarmament and decent work.

What emerged

The central idea is the first step. Kehkashan Basu weighed her passion against the resistance she faced, and her passion won out each time, because she believes someone has to take the first step and she wanted that person to be her, so she could inspire others to do the same. Niiamah Ashong reflected this back as response ability, the space to choose how to respond rather than react. A second shift came from her reframe of generations: it is good versus bad, not generation versus generation, which Niiamah Ashong said opened up new possibilities in his own thinking about youth and adults working together.

Questions this episode answers

Why do young leaders and older generations need to work together on climate and social change?

Kehkashan Basu says there is good and bad in every generation, and today's young people are moving ahead on the shoulders of older generations who dedicated their lives to change. Her organization works with people of all ages, including retired activists, because it sees intergenerational solidarity as essential.

Why should a leader take the first step instead of waiting for someone else?

Kehkashan Basu says many people think someone else will take the first step, but it was important to her to take it, and she takes that step every day. By taking it herself, she aims to inspire others to take it too.

Why do one-size-fits-all solutions fail in sustainability work?

Kehkashan Basu says every person, community and country is unique, so her organization's solutions are localized even when they look the same on paper. She sees the promotion of a one-size-fits-all solution as very harmful.

What does an intersectional approach to climate change look like?

Kehkashan Basu connects climate change with poverty, noting that it has affected more vulnerable communities for years, and within them women, girls and people of color. Her organization addresses these issues together rather than in silos.

How can a decentralized organization lead change across many countries?

Kehkashan Basu describes a network rather than a hierarchy, in which the people living in each community are best suited to lead change. Her organization acts as a catalyst that inspires, educates and supports, while local chapter heads take the work forward.

In their words

For me it was really important that I took that first step and I take that step every single day.

Kehkashan Basu

Really good versus bad in this scenario, not generation versus generation.

Kehkashan Basu

Every single community, every single country is unique and we can't use a one-size-fits-all solution.

Kehkashan Basu

Key moments

02:05 – Empathy for people and planet

03:38 – Starting her advocacy at seven

08:54 – Counting small changes as success

14:36 – Intergenerational solidarity

20:47 – Founding an organization at 12

28:01 – Taking the first step

31:44 – Responsibility as response ability

33:17 – Addressing issues holistically, not in silos

40:03 – Local leaders, organization as catalyst

45:14 – What makes the organization different

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Abbi Wood joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about knowing the real you and finding the edge of self-ownership. She shares how growing up in an authoritative household left her feeling like two different people, and how she now helps clients look at which parts of them come from their environment and which come in spite of it. What emerged is her conviction that the work is not about fitting in anywhere, but about coming home to and belonging to yourself.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Abbi Wood, Works with clients on self-ownership and is creating a community where people are seen
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released April 5, 2022
• Format: conversation, 47 minutes
• Topics: Self-ownership, Your essence across every context, Discernment over compliance, Honoring the mess, Readiness and your own timing, Belonging to yourself

What Abbi brought to the conversation

Abbi Wood has always looked outside the box, and she says her biggest accomplishment is the work she has done internally. That experience of growing up in an authoritative household now informs how she works with clients: exploring the different fragments of who they are in different relationships and systems. In her own business she runs the advice of online gurus through her personal filter, asking whether it carries a sense of should or of fear of missing out. She is launching a collective with a magazine, a directory, co-creative sessions, networking and community calls, built so people can be seen and form real relationships from which referrals follow naturally.

What emerged

The central distinction is that no one has to be the same person everywhere, but they do need to carry the essence of who they are wherever they go. Abbi Wood says choosing when to speak and when to stay quiet is power when it comes from personal choice and freedom, not from what others want. Niiamah Ashong highlighted the mess that comes with walking an outlier path, and she described honoring messy moments, feeling them fully, and trusting that the fog clears. She also names that readiness comes on its own timing, so she sees it as her own timing rather than being late to the game.

Questions this episode answers

Do leaders need to be the same person in every setting?

Abbi Wood says no: the environment informs which piece of a person shows up, and she is selective about where she is vulnerable. What matters is understanding the essence of who you are and carrying it everywhere, which she calls true power.

How can a leader tell which parts of themselves are really them?

Abbi Wood explores the fragments of who people are across relationships and systems, and asks which of them come as a result of the environment and which come in spite of it.

How should a leader handle messy moments on an unconventional path?

Abbi Wood says she has learned to honor messy moments and process them through, feeling whatever comes up rather than fighting it. She turns inward until the fog clears, and the answer often arrives when she isn't even thinking about it.

How do you filter outside advice in your business?

Abbi Wood runs what she hears through her personal filter and asks whether it gives her a sense of should, a sense of fear of missing out, or something she actually wants to get on board with. She has found that the answers often come from within, like choosing a third option no one offered.

What if it feels like you're late to doing your own inner work?

Abbi Wood says there is a readiness that comes with knowing yourself that no amount of outside input can create. She has decided she isn't late to the game, it is simply her timing.

In their words

Which of these is me as a result of my environment and which of these is me in spite of my environment.

Abbi Wood

When you understand the essence of who you are and you have that within you and you have it with you everywhere you go regardless of how it's presenting to people, that to me is true power.

Abbi Wood

It's really more about you coming home to yourself and belonging to yourself.

Abbi Wood

Key moments

03:36 – Always choosing the third option

10:42 – Being two different people

12:16 – Fragments of who people are

15:20 – Essence as true power

19:56 – Discernment over compliance

24:30 – Honoring the messy moments

27:36 – Readiness and her own timing

41:28 – Launching a collective to be seen

46:02 – Belonging to yourself

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Zibby Owens, a bookfluencer, podcaster, author, publisher and mother of four, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about getting to her edge without being overwhelmed. She shares why she started her own publishing company, what it costs to throw herself fully into everything she does, and how she is learning to slow down. What emerged is her practice of noticing bright spots, like the moment she knows she has reached one person.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Zibby Owens, Bookfluencer, podcaster, author and publisher
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released March 31, 2022
• Format: conversation, 48 minutes
• Topics: Starting a publishing company, Focused intensity, The dark side of a strength, Simple is not easy, Bright spots, Leading versus managing

What Zibby brought to the conversation

Zibby Owens has talked with over 900 authors through her podcast since 2018, and that vantage point on what was and wasn't working in the publishing industry led her to start her own publishing company. Rather than launch an imprint under a larger house, she built an independent company with a partner, bringing its authors together constantly, sharing profits so that if one book is an outsized hit everyone shares in it, and working closely with independent bookstores. She sold her first essay at 14, wrote her first little stories at nine, and has a memoir coming out after about 20 years of trying to publish one. She describes herself as open, honest and authentic, someone who never claims to have it all figured out.

What emerged

Niiamah Ashong named what he sees as the dark side of a strength: Zibby Owens throws herself into everything with intense focus, one thing at a time, but she says she doesn't know when to stop. After a year of 450 podcast episodes alongside everything else, she is now working on slowing down, with support from her husband and her online community. Niiamah Ashong introduced the idea of bright spots, looking at what went right and doing it again intentionally, and her answer was a late-night video that a single person said made their day. For him, her ease with living out loud is a muscle she has been building for decades.

Questions this episode answers

Why would a leader start their own company instead of working under a larger one?

Zibby Owens considered starting an imprint, a division under a larger publishing house, but realized she couldn't make the changes she wanted that way. She saw that smaller players can react quickly without bureaucracy, so she built an independent company with a community-first, profit-sharing model.

How can a high-output leader avoid getting overwhelmed?

Zibby Owens says she does one thing at a time with intense focus, but she isn't good at stopping herself. She is now working on slowing down, with a year-long goal, regular check-ins, and accountability from her husband and her online community.

What are bright spots and how can leaders use them?

Niiamah Ashong describes bright spots as looking at what went right, the things that were easier or gave better results than expected, and asking how to do them again intentionally. For Zibby Owens, a bright spot is hearing that something she shared helped someone, even if only one person.

What separates people who eventually get published from those who don't?

Zibby Owens says the difference is that you just can't give up. She had proposals rejected over many years and kept going until her memoir sold.

Is leading the same skill as managing?

Zibby Owens says she isn't the best manager and is working on delegating and trusting her team. Niiamah Ashong, who describes himself as a visionary leader, said the same holds for him: managing is a different skill set, and he is thinking about having someone else do the managing so he can keep leading.

In their words

When I'm doing things I'm doing one thing at a time intentionally.

Zibby Owens

You just can't give up.

Zibby Owens

I reached one person, it was worth it.

Zibby Owens

Key moments

02:38 – How she describes herself

03:38 – Starting a publishing company

07:12 – Community among authors

17:32 – One thing at a time

18:03 – Learning when to stop

27:42 – Looking for bright spots

31:15 – Why she never gave up

32:48 – Reaching one person

43:05 – Her edge for the year ahead

44:38 – Leading versus managing

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Mary Beth O'Connor, appointed a federal judge in 2014 and sober since January 1994, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about her path from a 20-year drug history and methamphetamine addiction to the bench. She shares how she trusted her own judgment, built a recovery plan that fit her, and rebuilt her career one step at a time. What emerged is her message that no matter where someone is, there is always enough hope to take the first step.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Mary Beth O'Connor, Former federal judge and advocate for multiple paths to recovery
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released March 24, 2022
• Format: conversation, 42 minutes
• Topics: Forging your own path to recovery, Trusting your own judgment, Principles over prescribed practices, Building a career step by step, Looking back to see how far you've come, Living as your whole self

What Mary brought to the conversation

Mary Beth O'Connor entered a recovery program at 32, and when its single approach wasn't a fit for her, she pulled out the ideas that were useful, did her own research and built her own recovery plan. She started over with a part-time administrative job, moved up through full-time roles and a supervisory promotion, and went to law school at 39 with six years of sobriety. She worked on large cases at a law firm and for the federal government, and in 2014 she was appointed a federal judge, serving five and a half years before taking early retirement. Today she uses her story in advocacy work and on boards to show people that they have multiple options for recovering from substance use disorder and trauma.

What emerged

The central thread is that the way forward for many outliers is to forge their own path, even when experts insist there is only one. Mary Beth O'Connor says having to trust herself and make her own decisions taught her how to handle life far beyond sobriety. Niiamah Ashong named her approach as respecting a process without being dominated by it, and staying true to the principle underneath a practice. She also describes how telling her story publicly let her be her whole self everywhere, which she calls liberating for the first time in her life.

Questions this episode answers

What can a leader do when the experts say there is only one way?

Mary Beth O'Connor asked herself how it could be possible that no one like her had ever succeeded another way, then went through the prescribed steps to find the ideas she could use. She says forging her own path was scary in the short run but strengthened her in the long run because she had to learn to trust herself.

Is there more than one path to recovery from addiction?

Mary Beth O'Connor says yes: about eight months in she found other programs existed, and she combined and synthesized ideas from several of them into an individual plan. Her goal in her advocacy is to let people know they have choices so they can find the right fit, which she believes increases their chances of success.

How do you rebuild a career after a major setback?

Mary Beth O'Connor says it is an incremental process: she started where she was, with a part-time administrative job, and moved forward step by step. She never set the goal of becoming a judge, but always asked what the next step was and made sure she gained the skills to qualify for it.

How can a leader build confidence while working toward a goal?

Mary Beth O'Connor tended to see what she didn't have yet, so she made a practice of pausing and looking backward to see how far she had come. She says that technique builds confidence and gives a more accurate picture of what has been accomplished.

What changes when a leader shares their story publicly?

Mary Beth O'Connor says she no longer has to parse what she says around different groups of people, and she can be her whole self anywhere. It has also let her be of more value: a former work colleague recently reached out to her for guidance she couldn't have offered when only a few people knew her story.

In their words

It's step by step and I had to start where I was.

Mary Beth O'Connor

No matter where you are there is always hope.

Mary Beth O'Connor

I encourage people to try to find just enough hope to take that first step.

Mary Beth O'Connor

Key moments

01:32 – The arc of her story

06:09 – The day before her recovery program

12:17 – Trusting her own judgment

21:23 – Building her own recovery plan

24:56 – Starting over with basic work habits

25:26 – Law school at 39

28:36 – Looking back to see progress

31:39 – Advocating for multiple paths

35:12 – Going public with her story

39:46 – There is always hope

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Christie Tate, the Chicago-based writer whose debut memoir Group became a New York Times best-seller, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about breaking through the mental health stigma. She shares what group therapy gave her, why she chose to tell her own story instead of fictionalizing it, and how secrets carry shame. What emerged is her personal credo: she doesn't do her life alone and she doesn't hold secrets.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Christie Tate, New York Times best-selling author of the memoir Group, Chicago-based writer and essayist
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released March 17, 2022
• Format: conversation, 53 minutes
• Topics: Breaking the mental health stigma, Group therapy, Telling your own story, Secrets and shame, Serving, not pleasing, Intimacy through realness

What Christie brought to the conversation

Christie Tate is a writer and essayist whose work has been published in The New York Times, The Washington Post and elsewhere, and whose debut memoir, Group, was a Reese Witherspoon book club pick. She left a hard-charging law firm to make time for parenting and writing. She began therapy in 2001, long before public figures talked openly about mental health, and found that group therapy gave her the tools to be in her life, to have friends, a husband, two children and richer family relationships. She wrote the book for the person she was back then, as a love letter to her group mates and a sign that transformation is possible.

What emerged

The central shift is from image management to being seen. Christie Tate first wrote her story as fiction, and it had no spark until someone told her to just tell her own story; early feedback that the draft was superficial pushed her to be braver and more honest on the page. She came to see that secrets carry shame and keep people isolated, and that the mess of realness is the heart of relationships. When Niiamah Ashong shared his agreements for crucial conversations, including serving rather than pleasing, she said it gave her language she had never had.

Questions this episode answers

How does group therapy differ from individual therapy?

Christie Tate describes group as a more dynamic setting, with five, six or seven other people in the circle plus the therapist, rather than one person talking to a doctor. She first chose it because it cost a third as much, and found it was the process that helped her become an integrated person who could attach to other people.

Why do secrets make people feel isolated?

Christie Tate says a secret carries shame, and agreeing to hold a secret means agreeing to hold that shame. She found that her secrets and shame were working in tandem to keep her repressed and isolated, and she says that for her, all roads lead back to shame.

How can a writer find the courage to tell a deeply personal story?

Christie Tate surrounded herself with a group of writers who write honestly about their bodies, relationships and lives, and consumed art by women doing the same across genres. She says the more specific she got, the more connected she was to her own light and the more willing she was to give it to the world.

What does it look like to serve someone rather than please them?

Niiamah Ashong opens crucial conversations by saying he will hide nothing and hold nothing back, that he is there to serve rather than please, and that he has a track record of life-changing conversations. Christie Tate says years of people pleasing left her unable to bring her preferences and desires to the table, and that true intimacy and connection are on the other side.

In their words

It's really simple, all roads lead back to shame.

Christie Tate

If I had to have a personal credo it's I don't do my life alone.

Christie Tate

The more personal something is the more universal it is.

Niiamah Ashong

Key moments

02:34 – Outside impression versus inner experience

04:34 – What group therapy is

07:08 – Seeking help before the stigma lifted

11:42 – Why she wrote the book

12:44 – From fiction to her own story

19:51 – Feedback that made her braver

21:24 – Borrowing courage from other artists

28:31 – Secrets and the shame they carry

38:49 – How group takes her to the edge

45:56 – Serve, don't please

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

Work with Niiamah: 1:1 with Niiamah | World of Difference

Continue into Outlier’s Edge World:

Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn | Youtube | Website | Guild Community