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Madelaine Vallin, a musician turned coach and holistic counseling educator, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about passion and vulnerability. She shares how passion has guided her from creating music to helping people recreate their lives, and why she chose to share her own story openly instead of packaging it. What emerged is a distinction between real vulnerability, which comes from courage and feels empowering, and a packaged story, along with her view that growth moves in cycles rather than a straight line.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Madelaine Vallin, Musician turned coach and holistic counseling educator
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released October 6, 2022
• Format: conversation, 50 minutes
• Topics: Passion as a guide, When passion goes into overdrive, Real vulnerability versus a packaged story, Vulnerable or just transparent, Life moves in cycles, Story, identity, inner knowing, deep knowing

What Madelaine brought to the conversation

Madelaine Vallin has followed her passion all her life, from creating music, including the idea of keynote concerts, to helping people recreate their lives and step into their next chapter. She sees this work as close to music: still creating, only now creating the song together with someone. She teaches at a college where she and her team are writing a whole new program, driven by her passion for well-being and human flourishing, and where students learn deep coaching and holistic counseling built from her decade of experience with clients. She also works privately with three clients a year.

What emerged

The central distinction is between vulnerability that is packaged and vulnerability that comes from courage. Madelaine Vallin says real vulnerability shares where a person is right now, without all the answers, and should feel empowering for the person speaking, which led Niiamah Ashong to ask whether his own off-the-cuff style is still vulnerable for him or just transparent now. Her answer, that courage is personal, opened a new question for him: where are the races he has already won? Her picture of growth as a spiral rather than a line offers leaders grace when familiar feelings return at each new level.

Questions this episode answers

What happens when a leader's passion goes into overdrive?

Madelaine Vallin says passion needs to be deepened and grounded. When the college where she teaches grew quickly, her passion pushed her to over-deliver and hold space for everybody, and because she wasn't grounding it, it sent her into overdrive, even though she was doing work she loved. She sees it as something many people should think about, even when they do what they love.

What is the difference between real vulnerability and a packaged story?

Madelaine Vallin says much of what passes for vulnerability is packaged: the hard parts are trimmed away and the story ends with how great life is now. For her, vulnerability is saying where she is right now, without all the answers and not out of a need for sympathy, and because it comes from courage it should feel empowering for the person speaking.

Should a leader share a hard experience publicly?

Madelaine Vallin challenged the voice in her head that said her story should stay hidden, and decided to put it out there and see what came back. People told her the same had happened to them and thanked her for her vulnerability, and she learned that people often connect through their vulnerabilities. She calls deciding not to hide it the scariest thing she did.

What does it mean to stop running a race in order to win it?

Madelaine Vallin, a self-described high achiever, set out to move through a hard chapter faster than it normally takes, and after six months realized it was a race she had to stop running in order to win. When she slowed right down and stopped pretending to have all the answers, she saw she was already doing the things she had said she would do. Niiamah Ashong pictured runners still looking ahead for a finish line they crossed 30 miles back, and asked himself where the races are that he has already won.

How can a leader work with feelings that keep coming back?

Madelaine Vallin says life moves in cycles, so feelings like loneliness or not feeling enough come back so a person can find new growth through them. She describes four levels to work through: story, identity, inner knowing, and deep knowing, a connection to something greater than oneself. Niiamah Ashong connected this to grace, noticing that a sense of being alone shows up each time he moves to his next level.

In their words

What I learned from that is that we often connect through our vulnerabilities.

Madelaine Vallin

This is not a race, this is the race that you have to stop running to win.

Madelaine Vallin

It's growth potential, it's moving into a new level of seeing it, and it's not linear, it's spiral.

Madelaine Vallin

Key moments

02:40 – Reinvention and keynote concerts

05:15 – Passion that can't be taught

11:05 – When passion goes into overdrive

17:48 – Deciding not to hide it

20:52 – Real vulnerability versus a packaged story

28:13 – Vulnerable or just transparent

30:48 – A finish line already crossed

34:29 – A race won by stopping

39:16 – Life moves in cycles

43:58 – Four levels of inner work

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Parissa Behnia, a coach and advisor who stands for speaking truth to power with power, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about influence, truth telling and the change agents who never get seen. She shares why admitting what she doesn't know builds trust, and why every outcome is perfect because it shows her what to do next. What emerged is her calling to help the leaders she calls modern badasses be understood without compromising who they are.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Parissa Behnia, Coach and advisor who stands for speaking truth to power with power
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released October 4, 2022
• Format: conversation, 31 minutes
• Topics: Speaking truth to power with power, Recognizing a sphere of influence, Asking for help as a leader, Every outcome is perfect, Content and context, Seeing the change agents in training

What Parissa brought to the conversation

Parissa Behnia stands for speaking truth to power with power, which she calls a divine calling. She coaches and advises the people she calls modern badasses: leaders who go 80 miles an hour in a 45 mile an hour zone, with strong intuition, a wicked sense of humor and wild creativity. She knows that world from her own corporate life, and she has spent the last year writing a book positioned as a love story from her to them. Niiamah Ashong shares that he goes by his given name because of her: years ago, in a circle, she asked why he was using a name that literally means no one when he was born with a beautiful name.

What emerged

The central insight is that power and not knowing can live together. Parissa Behnia says the counterintuitive truth is that the more a person admits not knowing something, the more people are willing and able to trust them, and she stays in her power by not attaching to an outcome, because every outcome gives her information about what to do next. She thinks about the opportunity cost of the truth tellers and change agents in training who get sidelined, and Niiamah Ashong acknowledges her as a world shaper who chose to stay in the game.

Questions this episode answers

What does it mean to speak truth to power with power?

For Parissa Behnia, speaking truth to power with power is influence. She calls it a gift to recognize a sphere of influence and to stand in power and say something that may be difficult for someone to hear, yet is what they need to hear in the moment, and she calls the work a divine calling.

How can a leader ask for help without losing credibility?

Parissa Behnia says the counterintuitive truth is that the more a leader asks, or admits not knowing something, the more people are willing and able to trust them. What helps her is not being attached to an outcome: every outcome is perfect because it tells her what to do next.

Why ask a question when you already know the answer?

Parissa Behnia says asking a question she knows the answer to always brings out more content and context that may not have been available to her, and it can confirm that what she thinks is the answer actually is. She adds that it is especially useful in negotiations.

What is the difference between content and context in a conversation?

Parissa Behnia describes context as the situation: where a person is and who they are with. Content is the exchange of energy, thoughts, ideas and words within it, and she frames the two as the what and the how.

Why do some high-potential leaders never get seen?

Parissa Behnia says many change agents, disruptors and outliers in training take themselves out of the game, or someone else takes them out of the game. From her own corporate experience, she helps them share their content and context so they become relatable, without changing who they are.

In their words

I'm not taking credit for the shift, I'm taking credit for the seed.

Parissa Behnia

The more you ask or the more you admit you don't know something, the more people are willing and able to trust you.

Parissa Behnia

Every outcome is perfect because it gives me information as to what to do next.

Parissa Behnia

Key moments

02:04 – The story behind Niiamah's name

04:38 – Speaking truth to power with power

09:21 – Honoring the gifts she's been given

14:00 – Helping people become relatable

17:08 – Admitting not knowing builds trust

19:46 – Every outcome is perfect

22:55 – Asking questions with known answers

25:33 – The traits of modern badasses

26:35 – A book written as a love story

28:39 – Acknowledged as a world shaper

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Rachel Eden, a coach whose work has always been supporting people with transformation, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast for a conversation about desire, faith and living in alignment. She draws a clear line between believing everything is for the best, which she calls safe, and the faith that she can create whatever she wants as a co-creator with something much bigger than herself. What emerged is her filter for any aspiration: is this your truest desire, and is it your highest one.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Rachel Eden, Coach who supports entrepreneurs, coaches and leaders with transformation and honoring their desires
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released September 29, 2022
• Format: conversation, 42 minutes
• Topics: Iteration and alignment, Core values beyond ego, Surviving versus thriving, Desire as divine, Truest and highest desire, Daring to dream

What Rachel brought to the conversation

Rachel Eden's background has always been transformation: she studied psychology, spent years in community leadership and engagement work, and went into coaching several years ago, full-time for a little more than the last two years. She runs a group for women entrepreneur leaders, coaches and people in the mental health space who want to see the impact they make in their world show up in their bank account, and she works with serial entrepreneurs who are constantly in creation mode. Her newest creation, a course incubating at the time, is her first collaboration with someone else. Niiamah Ashong describes her as someone he comes to for support, who helps him get through the clutter of a visionary mind and is a stand for people's desires.

What emerged

The central distinction is between two ways of seeing the world. For Rachel Eden, everything being for the best is safe and passive, a way of surviving, while thriving is the faith that she can create whatever she wants, a continuum she says she is still moving along. Her belief is that desire is divine and already in motion, and you can't get away from it. Niiamah Ashong shares how her question about why his idea for a global joy movement wasn't out in the world helped bring it to life within a month.

Questions this episode answers

What is the difference between believing everything is for the best and believing you can create?

Rachel Eden says the two are miles apart: everything is for the best is safe and passive, a way of interpreting whatever happens. To her, surviving is everything's for the best and playing it safe, while thriving is knowing she can create whatever she wants.

How can a leader tell whether a desire is worth pursuing?

Rachel Eden uses two filters: is this your truest desire, and is this your highest desire. Truest means it is genuinely yours, not an image someone else put in your head, because if it's not true it's not sustainable; highest means thinking big about the stakes and reaching for a soul-level desire, what you were put in this world to do.

Why can honoring a desire take longer than expected?

Rachel Eden coached a client for two months on honoring his desire to move his family to a new city, and at their last session he said he would stay. When she followed up, he told her he was moving in two weeks; in her telling, the coaching had needed time to germinate underground before it could blossom.

Why do some people keep moving the goal post?

Rachel Eden says most people prefer to play it safe and ask themselves whether what they have is enough. Entrepreneurs don't accept the status quo that way and keep moving the goal post over and over again, which is why she is so drawn to working with them.

How can a leader find core values that aren't driven by ego?

Rachel Eden asks where the ego stops and the genuine desires start, and lets her core values lead her to the desire. For her that desire is being a builder, a wellspring of inspiration and support for other people, and holding space for them, from serving good food in her home to helping people see their own power and light.

In their words

To me, surviving is everything's for the best and playing it safe, but thriving is I can create.

Rachel Eden

You can't get away from this thing called desire.

Rachel Eden

If it's not true, it's not sustainable.

Rachel Eden

Key moments

04:08 – A background in transformation

10:24 – Core values that cut away ego

14:04 – A new level of faith

16:39 – Everything for the best is safe

18:45 – Surviving versus thriving

22:20 – You can't escape desire

24:56 – A question that sparked a movement

30:09 – Truest desire and highest desire

32:44 – The three phases of desire

39:25 – Dare to dream every day

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Fari Eskandari, a spiritual health and wellness coach with 30 years as a fitness trainer and life coach, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about self-care, self-love and self-respect. She shares how she let go of what she'd held on to for years, stopped judging others and now builds herself up from scratch every day. What emerged is greatness as a way of being, one she believes every person can find within themselves.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Fari Eskandari, Spiritual health and wellness coach, fitness trainer and life coach for 30 years
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released September 20, 2022
• Format: conversation, 42 minutes
• Topics: Self-care that goes deeper, Self-worth, self-love and self-respect, Imposter syndrome is never a quick fix, Letting go of judgment, Coaching with authentic words, The greatness within

What Fari brought to the conversation

Fari Eskandari is a spiritual health and wellness coach who has been a fitness trainer and life coach for 30 years, helping people gain clarity in their self-worth, self-love and self-respect. Fitness is what she breathes, a gift she inherited from her father, an athlete in his own time, and she kept going until she became a trainer, even when she was told many times she would never make it. A longtime client told her that her words are so authentic, and she realized that what people were asking her for is called coaching; she certified as a coach in 2016 and came to see herself as a health and wellness coach when the gyms closed in the pandemic. She earned a black belt at 46, and she says she has a PhD of all A pluses from life.

What emerged

Niiamah Ashong sees a fierce, unapologetic and incredibly tender love in Fari Eskandari, and he names greatness as her way of being: you can't keep greatness down, and wherever she goes, from fitness to health and wellness, she is great there. She extends it to everyone, saying that if every person digs deep and sees their own greatness, they will transform and stop judging others. That's why she is so big on self-care, self-love and self-respect: once you achieve them, there is no way not to see your greatness.

Questions this episode answers

What does real self-care look like?

Fari Eskandari says self-care goes deeper than hair color, eyelashes or a facelift; it's when you respect yourself and find ways to be with you. That can be walking outside by yourself, writing, painting, a long bath with nice music, or looking in the mirror and telling yourself you love yourself and have a lot to offer.

Is imposter syndrome something you get over once?

Fari Eskandari says imposter syndrome is never a quick fix: it comes and goes, the way you get hungry again a few hours after you eat, so you have to work on it constantly. She takes pride in doing that work first with herself and then with clients all over the world.

What makes a coach's words land with clients?

A client who has been with Fari Eskandari for nearly two decades told her that her words are so authentic, because there are no games and she says it like it is. That's when she realized that what clients were asking her to do is called coaching.

How can a leader stop judging other people?

Fari Eskandari stopped wasting the energy she had spent for years judging others. When a negative thought about someone starts, she pictures a little version of herself saying you can't go there, and she turns it into a positive acknowledgement instead.

Why shouldn't you force change?

Fari Eskandari says that when you force anything, whether a relationship or a friendship, it won't last. Her advice is to appreciate it, acknowledge it and work towards it, but don't force it.

In their words

Every day is a new day and every day you feel different and every day you need to build yourself up from scratch.

Fari Eskandari

I have a PhD of all A pluses from life.

Fari Eskandari

You can't keep greatness down.

Niiamah Ashong

Key moments

01:31 – Fierce, unapologetic, tender love

04:03 – Coaching self-worth and self-love

11:46 – Becoming a trainer against the odds

13:47 – Why a client calls her authentic

16:21 – What self-care really is

19:56 – Building yourself up every day

21:28 – Catching judgment before it starts

26:35 – How much longer to hold on

33:46 – The greatness within every person

37:26 – You can't keep greatness down

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Tina Reimer, a coach, dancer and singer-songwriter, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about getting naked: being transparent, honest, open and vulnerable with yourself first and then with others. She shares the message behind her first song and the show she's creating, which weaves coaching, storytelling, music and dance together. What emerged is the freedom of living your full truth, and the questions it raised for Niiamah Ashong about his own.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Tina Reimer, Coach, mentor, dancer and singer-songwriter
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released September 15, 2022
• Format: conversation, 44 minutes
• Topics: Getting naked with yourself, Living with zero secrets, From supporting artists to being one, Integrating every part of you, Remembering how to dream, Living your full truth

What Tina brought to the conversation

Tina Reimer is a coach, mentor, dancer and singer-songwriter who worked with and for artists her whole life before realizing she is the artist. She has written five songs in the last year, and her first, Get Naked, is about being transparent, honest, open and vulnerable with yourself and with others. She is creating a show that brings coaching, storytelling, music and dance into one immersion, so that everyone who leaves knows they deserve to go after their dreams. Niiamah Ashong describes her energy as something that infuses the whole environment, and sees in her a woman relentless in discovering more about herself and sharing it through every vehicle available to her.

What emerged

Tina Reimer's choice to live with zero secrets became the edge of the conversation for Niiamah Ashong: at first it was hard for him to believe, and then it got scary as her presence came more and more into focus. Rather than asking for her secrets, he got curious about the process and what a life without them would mean for him, and he left asking himself where he is living in fantasy. She made clear that having no secrets isn't the goal; her goal is living her full truth.

Questions this episode answers

What does it mean to get naked with yourself?

For Tina Reimer, getting naked means being transparent, honest, open and vulnerable, first with yourself and then with others: no more masks, no pretending, no hiding, no secrets. She says the energy it sets free brings so much more freedom, space and resources.

How do you move from supporting others to stepping on stage yourself?

After working with and for artists her whole life, Tina Reimer realized she is the artist, and she now writes songs about her own messages and stories, each with a message the audience can put into their own lives. Niiamah Ashong reflects it back as the messages that are true for her moving front and center.

How can a leader bring all their talents together into one body of work?

Tina Reimer is creating a show that combines coaching, storytelling, music and dance in one immersion. Niiamah Ashong hears it as an integration of every part of her, made by someone who no longer has to compartmentalize herself or hide things from herself or others.

Why do so many people stop dreaming?

Tina Reimer sees that many people have forgotten to dream or how to dream and have put their dreams away. Her show is meant to help everyone leave knowing they deserve to go after their dreams, big or small, with the mindset and tools to do it.

What is the real goal of living without secrets?

Tina Reimer says it isn't about having no secrets or leaving fantasy behind; it's about living your full truth, finding out who you truly are and living your true dreams. As the masks come off, she says, you gain energy and freedom and have access to all you are here to do.

In their words

Get naked is all about being transparent, honest, open, vulnerable.

Tina Reimer

Many people have forgotten to dream or how to dream and maybe put away their dreams.

Tina Reimer

It's about living your full truth, it's about finding out who you truly are, it's about living your true dreams.

Tina Reimer

Key moments

02:03 – Who she is to Niiamah Ashong

08:19 – Her first song comes out

09:51 – What Get Naked is about

10:52 – No masks, no pretending, no secrets

13:25 – A show combining all her gifts

14:28 – Helping people dream again

17:00 – An integration of all of her

24:46 – When zero secrets felt scary

38:37 – Questions Niiamah asks himself

40:37 – Living your full truth

Enter Tina Reimer’s world

Website | YouTube | Instagram

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Samantha Lee, an impact investor who became a CEO at about 24, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about owning who you are beyond titles and going where others don't go. She shares how she grew from letting her team introduce her to letting her name stand on its own, and the mission that drives her: channeling the best resources into solving the world's biggest problems. What emerged is a fresh view of fear as an ally, a sign she's taking on the challenges that matter most.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Samantha Lee, Impact investor and former CEO of a consulting firm
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released September 9, 2022
• Format: conversation, 56 minutes
• Topics: Owning who you are beyond titles, Leading a more experienced team, Going where others don't go, A mission statement in one sentence, Fear as a compass, Building what you most needed

What Samantha brought to the conversation

Samantha Lee became CEO of a consulting firm at about 24, leading a team in which everyone was at least eight years more experienced, and she has since moved through international development and impact investing into impact-led venture capital investing. She calls herself anti-hype: rather than following what's popular, she wants to be in the nitty-gritty of giving people in rural areas access to the internet and getting health care to people who live a day's walk from the nearest health center. Her mission is to channel the best resources into solving the world's biggest problems, and she credits the people she meets, from farmers in the fields to patients and teams in health care, with shaping where she puts her work.

What emerged

Samantha Lee said out loud, for the first time in those words, that she is the person who goes where others don't, and Niiamah Ashong heard the self-trust and solidity in mission behind it. When she shared that the closer she gets to something big, the more afraid she is, he offered that fear is a friend and a sign she's in the positions where the biggest challenges and greatest opportunities are. She agreed that if she isn't afraid at all, she doesn't care enough, and that her work is making sure the fear doesn't stop her from doing what she needs to do.

Questions this episode answers

How can a young leader hold authority in a room of more experienced people?

Samantha Lee became a CEO at about 24 with a team that was at least eight years more experienced, and at first she let her team introduce her. Over time she got more comfortable with the role and believed more in her own story of why she was doing it, until the title no longer mattered and her name was enough.

How do you get busy professionals to give their time to social impact?

Samantha Lee's work involved bringing together a network of talented, incredibly busy people to help nonprofits, social enterprises and corporate leaders. She learned that if you give people a vision to believe in and show how their work contributes, it taps a hunger deep in everyone to do good and make a difference.

How do you write a personal mission statement?

A friend pushed Samantha Lee past buzzwords like impact investing and social innovation, asking who she is and what she stands for in one sentence. She described it in a way her grandmother would understand: channeling the best resources into solving the world's biggest problems.

How can a leader relate to fear when going after something big?

Niiamah Ashong suggests fear can be a friend and, as his mentor says, a compass that means you're headed in the right direction. Samantha Lee adds that fear reminds her what's at stake and points to her north star, and that the work is not letting it stop her.

Why do so many leaders build what they once needed?

Samantha Lee's theory is that people put out into the world the thing they believe they most need, and many people start something because they didn't receive it themselves. Her own mission grew out of how hard fundraising was for the organization she led, so that other social entrepreneurs don't have to face that again.

In their words

That mission statement is really around wanting to channel the best resources into solving the world's biggest problems.

Samantha Lee

If I'm not afraid at all then I don't care enough.

Samantha Lee

We put out into the world the thing that we believe we most need.

Samantha Lee

Key moments

00:32 – Niiamah on reclaiming his name

09:16 – Becoming a CEO at 24

11:47 – Fearlessness first, then confidence

14:19 – Giving busy people a vision

15:52 – Going where others don't go

25:07 – Her mission in one sentence

34:45 – Fear as a friend

41:21 – Putting out what you most need

47:29 – The people who shape the path

55:39 – Trust in your instincts

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Rick Young joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast for an exploratory conversation about the choice of being and embracing what makes you special. He shares how he lives in sync with the rhythms of nature and brings a childlike wonder, checking in with himself so he can follow where the current is pulling him. What emerged is a co-created conversation in which Rick Young owned his gift out loud, an example of the outlier Niiamah Ashong sees in everyone.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Rick Young, Co-creates meaningful experiences with people, in tune with the rhythms of nature
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released August 30, 2022
• Format: conversation, 37 minutes
• Topics: Being over doing, Living by natural rhythms, Setting and checking intentions, Childlike wonder, Owning your gifts out loud, Co-creating a conversation

What Rick brought to the conversation

Rick Young brings a deep connection to nature, which he names as one of his gifts: the ability to really honor the frequencies of the earth. He tends a garden, lives in sync with the seasons, and starts each day with an intention he checks in on regularly, ready to course correct when the current pulls him somewhere else. He also brings childlike wonder, a playful curiosity with no attachment to the outcome, and he has always been drawn to play with children, including at a kindergarten when he was teaching. What lights him up is being in conversation and co-creating meaningful experiences with other people.

What emerged

Niiamah Ashong opened by widening who shapes the next era of humanity: not only the people on top lists, but the people anyone walks by every day who choose to show up more fully in who they are. Rick Young embodied that when he named and owned his gift on the record instead of playing it safe, and when he noticed a change in his own current mid-sentence and chose to say what he was being called to say. He left recognizing that he had allowed himself to fully be, in a co-creation rather than an interview.

Questions this episode answers

How can a leader set an intention that still holds by the end of the day?

Rick Young sets an intention for the day and then checks in with himself regularly, asking whether it is still serving him or whether he needs to course correct because the current is pulling him somewhere else.

What does it mean to live in sync with natural rhythms?

Rick Young treats the seasons as inner rhythms: fall for letting things fall away, winter for going within and processing, spring for planting seeds and summer for blossoming. His garden has taught him that 30 seeds may come up one season and five the next with everything done the same, which teaches detachment from the process.

Why would a leader set their own start and end to the year?

Niiamah Ashong runs his business year from September 1 to August 31, because people slow down in the summer and he would rather be in his groove by the time everyone else is ready to start. Rick Young, who had never chosen his own beginning and end of the year, said he's going to start doing it for himself.

What is the difference between curiosity and childlike wonder?

Rick Young says young children are curious without being attached to the outcome, and childlike wonder adds that innocence, playfulness and excitement. Niiamah Ashong sees it in how Rick Young is down to learn and give things a go, even when something could make people uncomfortable.

How can a leader notice what their body is telling them in a conversation?

When a cough interrupted him mid-sentence, Rick Young checked in on whether the current had changed and chose to say what he was being called to say instead. Niiamah Ashong acknowledges this as a multi-dimensional way of being in conversation, noticing not just what is said but what is happening in the body.

In their words

I don't care what you do, I care who you be.

Niiamah Ashong

We all can speak to nature but that doesn't mean we all listen or can really hear.

Rick Young

The children are so young and curious about things, they're not attached to the outcome.

Rick Young

Key moments

01:03 – Seeing the outlier in everyone

02:34 – Who you be, not what you do

04:05 – Checking in with his intention

09:44 – Choosing your own year

10:45 – Living by the seasons

17:26 – Naming his gift for nature

20:33 – Childlike, not childish, wonder

24:06 – Following a change in the current

31:51 – What struck him most

36:33 – A wish to see your light

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Dr. Varun Gandhi, an environmental engineer turned entrepreneur who helped grow a weekly community meal effort past 200,000 meals, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about noticing signs and acting on them. He shares how meditation slowed him down enough to see the signs, and how he builds anything new by showing up and iterating. In a live coaching segment, Niiamah coaches him on expressing himself with more ease, and what emerged is a fresh way to treat nerves as a sign of a bigger game.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Varun Gandhi, Environmental engineer with a PhD, entrepreneur and organizer of a weekly community meal effort
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released August 23, 2022
• Format: conversation, 43 minutes
• Topics: Acting on signs, Serving the community every Sunday, Building a meditation habit, Quick action and iteration, The stories people create, Expressing oneself with ease

What Varun brought to the conversation

Varun Gandhi holds a master's and a PhD in environmental engineering, worked for a couple of years, then switched to entrepreneurship and tried many different things to understand where he belongs. He helped create a community organization from scratch that grew to about 2,000 members in two years, and he has held leadership roles in a public speaking organization. During the pandemic he helped start a Sunday effort that grew from grocery bags into hot meals, crossing 200,000 meals, and the team is creating a template so others can replicate it in their own cities. He also helps heart-based entrepreneurs with the technology side of their businesses, is creating a self-discovery course about the stories people create, and calls himself a water doctor who reminds people to drink more water.

What emerged

Niiamah Ashong noticed a pattern running through Varun Gandhi's stories: he answers the call, starts simple, and iterates quickly with a strong feedback loop, whether building a meditation habit toward five minutes or turning grocery bags into hot meals by week two. In the live coaching that followed, Varun named what would change the game for him: being more at ease expressing himself. Niiamah's invitation was to name the nerves out loud instead of carrying them, and to treat that sensation as a sign he's stepping into something new and playing a bigger game. Varun's own insight was that he is much closer on this than before and has gotten a whole lot better at it.

Questions this episode answers

How do you act on signs instead of just noticing them?

Varun Gandhi sees the sign, then sits with it for a while to feel whether it feels right in the body before he moves forward. When he says yes to everything it becomes too much, so he pulls back and says no to a few things. He credits meditation with slowing him down enough to pay attention to the signs.

How did a weekly food effort grow into hundreds of thousands of meals?

Early in the pandemic, Varun Gandhi and a team met on a Sunday to put together grocery bags and hand them out, then kept coming back, assembling about 8,400 bags over more than 20 Sundays. By week two they asked what else they could do and began cooking hot meals in a commercial kitchen, growing to 1,500 to 2,000 meals every Sunday and crossing 200,000 meals, with 500,000 as the next mark.

How do you build a new habit like meditation from scratch?

Varun Gandhi set a goal of just five minutes, sat facing a corner with his distractions behind him, set a timer and kept his phone far away. It took him about three months to reach five minutes, and he says the key was coming back the next day and showing up consistently, then fine-tuning toward the kind of meditation he enjoys.

What does it mean that people are always creating a story?

Varun Gandhi says that when people connect the dots between events, they draw on their own experiences and memories, so two people can create completely different stories from the same situation. Using the image of a film inside a projector, his course invites people to edit and reframe that film so it takes them where they want to go.

How can a leader express themselves more freely when the camera is on?

Niiamah Ashong invites Varun Gandhi to tell people up front that he's excited and has felt nerves before, so energy isn't spent holding it in. He also reframes the sensation as a sign of stepping into something new, and invites Varun to run toward the opportunities that bring it up.

In their words

Universe is constantly sending us signs and these messages or inklings to move in a particular direction, so I pay attention to that.

Varun Gandhi

The key is I would come back to it the next day.

Varun Gandhi

At every moment of our lives we're creating a story.

Varun Gandhi

Key moments

02:03 – From engineering to entrepreneurship

05:38 – Answering the call to feed people

09:13 – Paying attention to the signs

16:51 – A five-minute meditation goal

19:24 – Showing up and coming back

22:28 – Exploring all the other dots

24:32 – Every moment creates a story

29:37 – Stepping into live coaching

36:16 – Naming the nerves up front

38:49 – Nerves as a sign of growth

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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