Niiamah Ashong

How Play Can Shift Your Whole Mindset with Georgina Halabi

November 10, 2022 by Niiamah Ashong Leave a Comment

Georgina Halabi, a coach to highly successful executives, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast for a conversation about play. She draws a clear line between playing and performing, and the two put it into practice live with a pair of Marvel bobble heads. What emerged is a picture of her eye reading gift reaching many people while she stays focused on one person at a time.

Episode at a glance

Guest: Georgina Halabi, Coach to highly successful executives, with a background in advertising and technology
Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released November 10, 2022
Format: conversation, 51 minutes
Topics: Play versus performance, Presence and flow, Pattern interrupts in hard moments, Quieting the mind, Eye reading as a superpower, Amplifying one-to-one work

What Georgina brought to the conversation

Georgina Halabi coaches highly successful, highly aware executives on accelerating their career success with well-being, not one at the expense of the other. Her background is in advertising and technology. She lives in the UK and lived in Asia for 18 years, which is where she and Niiamah Ashong met, in Singapore. Niiamah Ashong describes her as someone who brings humor along with spiritual awareness, coaching awareness and agility. Her superpowers, as she names them, are reading people's eyes and helping people see their own greatness and wisdom, so they can switch from self-doubt into compassion and wisdom.

What emerged

Georgina Halabi names the distinction at the heart of the conversation: as a society, people have stopped playing and are only performing. Performing, as Niiamah Ashong describes it in the moment, clenches the body and narrows ideas, and she adds that it kicks a person out of presence and flow. Niiamah Ashong notices that she keeps saying her eye reading works with only one person at a time and challenges that as diminishing the superpower. She takes up his image of a stadium, where she helps one person while the music is felt by everyone else, and she accepts his invitation to record an eye reading session and amplify it.

Questions this episode answers

What is the difference between playing and performing?

Georgina Halabi describes performing as playing for everyone else, with a level of expectation to hit all the right notes, while playing is a heart opening experience that is curious, connected and present. She is clear that people can still have goals and outcomes they want to achieve; the difference is the energy that goes into performing.

How can play shift your mindset in a hard moment?

Georgina Halabi shares a memory from about 25 years ago when, in a painful moment in a relationship, she threw a block of cheddar cheese into a river. The moment was so ridiculous that she laughed out loud, and it gave her the sense that she will always be all right, no matter what life throws at her.

What happens in the body when you feel pressure to perform?

Niiamah Ashong describes feeling clenched, with a narrowing of ideas and an unspoken expectation to deliver the best, which pulls him into thinking questions ahead instead of being with the other person. Georgina Halabi adds that performing kicks a person out of presence and flow, with cortisol and adrenaline running.

Can one-to-one coaching reach more people without losing its depth?

Niiamah Ashong says scaling one person at a time is very possible, using the image of a singer in a stadium who sings to the one person who really needs to hear the song. Georgina Halabi takes that up: she focuses on helping one person while the music plants seeds in many others, without being attached to performing to everyone.

What helps people move out of self-doubt?

Georgina Halabi says people have stopped believing in themselves and are full of self-doubt. Her answer starts with quieting the mind: when people quiet their minds, they switch on a part of the brain that is resourceful and creative, and from there they see that they are not the problem but the solution.

In their words

I think as a society we've stopped playing and we are only performing.
Georgina Halabi

That to me is how play can shift your whole mindset.
Georgina Halabi

I'm not attached to performing to everyone, I'm there helping that one person.
Georgina Halabi

Key moments

01:03 – Picking the guitar back up

05:49 – Who she is and what she does

07:23 – Playing versus performing

10:57 – What performing feels like

17:07 – A memory of throwing cheese

21:17 – Marvel bobble heads join in

24:55 – Naming her superpowers

29:35 – Challenging the one-at-a-time story

32:10 – Playing to one person in a stadium

40:29 – Saying yes to an eye reading session

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Taking Leadership of Your Own Life with Amicie de Quatrebarbes

November 8, 2022 by Niiamah Ashong Leave a Comment

Amicie de Quatrebarbes, a veterinarian by training and by heart with a passion for poultry production, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about the shift from going with the flow to leading her own life. After years of moving between countries with one company, she stepped back to ask herself the right questions, gave herself a year to work on her own project and learned that anyone is allowed to ask questions. What emerged is a clearer sense of her strengths: she is in her element in conversation, she loves connecting people, and she knows the leadership role she wants next.

Episode at a glance

Guest: Amicie de Quatrebarbes, Veterinarian by training and by heart, focused on animal health and poultry production
Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released November 8, 2022
Format: conversation, 45 minutes
Topics: Leading her life, not just living it, Permission to ask questions, Starting over in new countries, Conversation as her element, Building on her strengths, Knowing the role she wants

What Amicie brought to the conversation

Amicie de Quatrebarbes is a vet by training and by heart who loves production animals, especially poultry production. She lived and worked in several countries, then took things into her own hands, working with Niiamah Ashong to ask herself the right questions and giving herself a year to work on her own project; her work has since come back to animal health. Along the way she approached people on her own terms and met general managers of poultry companies, some of them very large. Niiamah Ashong remembers being struck, when they first met, by how much passion, understanding and possibility she brought to a subject few people talk about, always grounded in the farmers she wanted to support.

What emerged

The phrase that stood out to Niiamah Ashong was leading her life, not just living it: for Amicie de Quatrebarbes, it means being the one who makes the decisions rather than taking orders from a company, family or friends. A key shift came from realizing she didn't need to be an expert or have a specific status to ask questions, because everybody loves to be listened to and you learn while they talk. She has found she is in her element in face-to-face conversation, and Niiamah Ashong points out how she increases the odds of good things happening by asking early for the kind of experience that suits her best.

Questions this episode answers

What does it mean to lead your life rather than just live it?

Amicie de Quatrebarbes compares it to a company: there are the people who make the decisions and the people who take orders. Leading your life means not taking orders from the outside, whether from a company, family or friends, and being the one at the top who makes the decisions.

Do you need to be an expert to reach out to people in an industry?

Amicie de Quatrebarbes once thought she had to be an expert to be entitled to ask questions. She came to realize that anyone is allowed to ask, that people are always happy to talk because everybody loves to be listened to, and that it's never a waste of time because while they talk, you learn as well.

Why can moving somewhere new start to feel like repeating the same thing?

Amicie de Quatrebarbes says each move to a new country was amazing at first, but each time she had to build the roots and the top of the tree all over again, which took double the effort. Niiamah Ashong notes that going somewhere new doesn't always mean having a new experience, and that restarting can become a thrilling trap, one she recognized and stepped out of.

Why do face-to-face conversations matter so much?

Amicie de Quatrebarbes found that once she is talking with someone in front of her, she is in her element and it flows, while a four-line email could take her two days to get right. Niiamah Ashong sees this as engineering luck: putting herself in the environment that best suits her talents.

How does knowing your strengths change a job search?

After the years she spent getting to know herself, Amicie de Quatrebarbes says her job search is much easier: she knows what role she can do and be good at, and she has a much better way of presenting herself. She is looking for a leadership and management role in poultry production where she can connect the dots between people.

In their words

Everybody loves to be listened to.
Amicie de Quatrebarbes

You never really know what your impact's going to be.
Niiamah Ashong

So you want to always keep focusing on what you're good at, what you're successful at.
Amicie de Quatrebarbes

Key moments

02:04 – A passion few people talk about

04:40 – From going with the flow

06:14 – You don't need to be an expert

08:52 – You never know your impact

14:11 – Building roots in each new country

19:51 – What leading your life means

23:00 – A year leading her own project

30:57 – In her element face to face

33:33 – Capitalizing on her strengths

38:13 – The role she wants next

About Niiamah Ashong

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Coming Into and Serving from a Place of Unconditional Love with Alexis Artin

November 3, 2022 by Niiamah Ashong Leave a Comment

Alexis Artin, a master embodiment teacher and dancer since the age of four, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about coming into and serving from a place of unconditional love. She explains the difference between comfort and belonging, and why she sees everything existing in balance. What emerged is a real shift for Niiamah: seeing that his family and his creative work aren't at odds, and that he doesn't have to hold the balance alone.

Episode at a glance

Guest: Alexis Artin, Master embodiment teacher and dancer since age four
Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released November 3, 2022
Format: conversation, 49 minutes
Topics: Comfort versus belonging, Co-regulation, Soul-sourced embodiment, Everything in balance, Deeper roots, wider wings, Interrogating assumptions

What Alexis brought to the conversation

Alexis Artin is a trained master embodiment teacher who has been a dancer since she was four years old, and movement is a big part of her life. She describes life as a dance between her neurology and her biology, her spirit and her body, her intellect and her emotional life. With a fellow master teacher of embodiment, she is creating a soul-sourced embodiment practice that encompasses body, mind, heart and soul, and she describes soul as an acronym: source of unconditional love. Her whole thing is inclusion, and she is a mom of two boys she delights in watching become men.

What emerged

Alexis Artin explains that comfort often comes from people's strategies to self-regulate, while belonging comes from the ability to co-regulate, which humans learn from the very start of life. She sees everything existing in balance, and when she looks for the balance in something she has held a charge about, the charge is gone and she is left with unconditional love and gratitude. When she reflects that Niiamah Ashong's family is the ground for his expanding work, he realizes that his family and his creating are playing the same game rather than taking time from each other. She closes with the story of a dance-off she was sure she'd won, a moment that taught her to interrogate her assumptions.

Questions this episode answers

What's the difference between comfort and belonging?

Alexis Artin says comfort often comes from people's strategies and their ability to self-regulate, while belonging comes from the ability to co-regulate. Humans are a co-regulated species: when a caregiver rocks, feeds and calms an infant, the caregiver's nervous system teaches the baby's that it's safe and that its needs are going to be met.

What is the difference between collaboration and co-creation?

Niiamah Ashong describes collaboration as splitting 100 percent between people, 50/50 or 60/40, toward a shared goal. Co-creation is both people bringing their full 100 percent into something that has never been here, which somehow adds up to more than 200.

How can finding balance release an emotional charge?

Alexis Artin says a judgment is one-sided and not in equilibrium. When she looks for and finds the balance, integrating the parts left out of the narrative she has been holding, the emotional charge is gone and she is left with nothing but unconditional love and gratitude.

Can a leader expand their work while staying grounded in family?

When Niiamah Ashong wondered what roots would support his expanding work, Alexis Artin pointed out that his family is his ground, and that in providing for, protecting and showing up for them he is expanding. He realized he is strengthened in his creation when he's with his family and strengthened in his family when he's creating.

Why should leaders question their assumptions?

Alexis Artin was certain she had won a dance-off during a team game, yet her opponent refused to sit down and Alexis ended up out of the game. She says the quality of a person's life is based on the quality of their questions, and that pausing to ask 'what if that's not the truth' can flip a whole world upside down.

In their words

Are you part of the dance or are you being a wallflower, just letting it, you know, ride without you?
Alexis Artin

Be grounded, steady yourself, but the deeper the roots, the wider the wings.
Alexis Artin

The quality of your life is based on the quality of your questions.
Alexis Artin

Key moments

01:34 – A car ride and belonging

03:07 – Comfort versus belonging

05:44 – Collaboration versus co-creation

10:27 – Life as a dance

11:30 – A soul-sourced embodiment practice

14:07 – Soul as source of unconditional love

17:48 – Everything exists in balance

22:29 – Deeper roots, wider wings

24:35 – Family as the roots

37:43 – The dance-off story

About Niiamah Ashong

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Slow Down and Find the Truth Within Your Mission with Andrea Pantig

November 1, 2022 by Niiamah Ashong Leave a Comment

Andrea Pantig, a mother who leads an online work team with her husband, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about her mission: helping people achieve financial and time freedom to do what they love most and spend more time with the people they love. When Niiamah asks her to say her mission again, she finds that slowing down makes it feel so real and gives her a new idea every time she says it. What emerged, as Niiamah reflected back to her, is that she is about freedom itself, and that people surprise her when she gives them that freedom.

Episode at a glance

Guest: Andrea Pantig, Mother who leads an online work team with her husband
Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released November 1, 2022
Format: conversation, 54 minutes
Topics: Living her mission, Financial and time freedom, Family first, Leading by example, Freedom as team culture, Upskilling for online work

What Andrea brought to the conversation

Andrea Pantig puts family first, and she describes herself first as a mother, a wife and a daughter. Her mission came to life when her son was born: she resigned from her job to stay home with him and moved into the digital space, where her husband had been freelancing since they graduated. Four years later she and her team teach and coach people to work online, from the skills and tools to being comfortable with English, acing interviews and being confident in themselves. A constant achiever and valedictorian in school, she chose a path that wasn't the popular choice in her country, and the way she lives now sparks curiosity in the people around her.

What emerged

The shift came when Andrea Pantig moved from convincing people to simply living her mission, so people could see her at home with her family, comfortable in life, and come asking what she does. Niiamah Ashong reflected that she is about more than financial and time freedom: she is about freedom, and about giving people the chance to use it. She compares it to holding a bird in her palm without clutching it, and she has found that people surprise her when given that freedom, like a teammate who turned out to enjoy design and is now another designer on the team.

Questions this episode answers

How do you inspire people to change how they work without convincing them?

Andrea Pantig found it difficult to convince people who didn't see results, so she chose to live the mission instead. People could see her at home, comfortable in life and present for her family, and now they ask what she does, with not much convincing needed.

What happens when a leader gives their team freedom?

Andrea Pantig says that people given freedom use it to work more because they appreciate the person who gave it, while strictness can make people leave even when they love the job. A teammate she gave the chance and the tools to try design enjoyed it more than her other tasks, and now the team has another designer.

Why slow down when you say your mission out loud?

When Niiamah Ashong asked Andrea Pantig to say her mission a second time, she found that slowing down made her breathe in on everything she was saying and internalize it. She says it felt so real and gives her a new idea every time she says it about how to make it real for people.

How can a team help experienced professionals move into online work?

Andrea Pantig and her team coach people on the skills and tools for online work, on being comfortable with the English language and on how to ace interviews, and also on being confident in themselves. She notes that going back to being a new applicant after years in a tenured job can feel vulnerable, and her team is there to support them.

Why does continuous learning matter in online work?

Andrea Pantig says working online always involves upskilling, learning new things and learning new tools, because everything is changing in the online world and anyone who stops learning gets left behind. She has seen an engineer, after seeing what her team does, open up to learning a tool that could help him work online too.

In their words

My mission is to help people to achieve financial and time freedom to do what they love most and to spend more time with the people they love.
Andrea Pantig

Slowing things down makes you breathe in on every thing that you're saying and really, really internalize it.
Andrea Pantig

The more that you give people freedom, the more that they are happy working, doing things that they love.
Andrea Pantig

Key moments

02:38 – How Niiamah sees Andrea

06:46 – Her mission of financial and time freedom

07:47 – Saying the mission slowly

14:01 – Playing and teaching the team

15:05 – A mission born with her son

21:47 – From convincing to living the mission

24:21 – Teaching people to fish

32:49 – Choosing the less popular path

40:41 – Opening up possibilities

46:55 – Freedom like a bird in the palm

About Niiamah Ashong

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The Process of Finding an Identity with Samantha Venia Logan

October 27, 2022 by Niiamah Ashong Leave a Comment

Samantha Venia Logan, a consultant who helps organizations build online communities, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about the process of finding an identity. She shares her own story of finding her identity, the psychology of how people learn who they are, and why that process is messy. What emerged is how following the yeses leads a person to places they never imagined, and how relationships can be repaired from that new place.

Episode at a glance

Guest: Samantha Venia Logan, Consultant who helps organizations build online communities
Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released October 27, 2022
Format: conversation, 40 minutes
Topics: Reframing intimidation, Finding an identity, Learning schema theory, Following the yeses, Share of voice in a room, Repairing burned bridges

What Samantha brought to the conversation

Samantha Venia Logan stepped publicly into who she is as a student, got bold about it and went on to launch her own YouTube channel. At 21 she was the youngest person in the room at a major summit full of CEOs and executive directors changing the world. She says she is known for connecting theory and principle to everyday concepts, and she built a consultancy that helps organizations build online communities and galvanize their audiences, then turned that expertise into an e-course for community managers and executive directors. Niiamah Ashong describes her as well versed in what she leads, with an alignment that is unapologetic and natural.

What emerged

The central insight is that identity is learned through a series of yeses and noes, which is why finding a new one is messy. Samantha Venia Logan explains that when an environment gives a person only noes, restlessness pushes them to leave and find their yeses, and following that takes them to places they never imagined. She also learned to use her presence in a room with intention: if she wanted to be a giant in her industry, she needed other people to stand on her shoulders. On repairing relationships, she says a reckoning has very little to do with the person someone hurt and everything to do with whether they let themselves feel it.

Questions this episode answers

Why is finding a new identity so messy?

Samantha Venia Logan explains identity through learning schema theory, a psychological theory in which a schema works like a set of yes or no logic gates people use to learn who they are over time. When a person grows up surrounded by noes and then finally finds a yes, the shift can be intense, and none of it is neat, clean or orderly.

How do you find what you truly enjoy when your environment keeps saying no?

Samantha Venia Logan says a person's emotions will tell them, as a restlessness and a feeling that they can't remain in their own skin. She calls it grapevine identity, after grapevine communication, where ideas come from outside the structured channels, and says the only way to find the yeses is to leave the environment where all a person is getting is noes.

Can being called intimidating be a good thing?

Niiamah Ashong shares that when someone told him even his joy is intimidating, he felt free and chose to use it rather than spend energy trying not to come off that way. Samantha Venia Logan says seeing intimidation as something intriguing because it is not yet known will change how she looks back on relationships where she heard she was intimidating.

How can a leader with a strong presence use it well?

Samantha Venia Logan says it is easy for her to fill a room, so she checks her share of voice and asks what she is doing with that space. She learned that if she wanted to be a giant in her industry, she needed to find other people to stand on her shoulders.

How do you repair a relationship after a period of distance?

Samantha Venia Logan's main tool is radical candor that removes emotional mitigation, sitting in the moment so the emotion can come out. She has repaired relationships she once thought could never be repaired, including a friend she now laughs and bonds with over mimosas every Saturday.

In their words

None of that is neat and clean and orderly, it's super super messy.
Samantha Venia Logan

If I wanted to be a giant in my industry, I needed to find other people to stand on my shoulders.
Samantha Venia Logan

If you follow that notion you're going to take yourself to places you never imagined you could.
Samantha Venia Logan

Key moments

02:07 – A leader who is well versed

03:40 – Reframing what intimidating means

07:17 – Her story begins at 18

09:25 – What she calls the phase

11:31 – Youngest in a room of CEOs

12:02 – Others standing on her shoulders

17:13 – Learning schema theory explained

23:03 – Grapevine identity and finding yeses

30:52 – Repairing burned bridges

35:36 – Building online communities

About Niiamah Ashong

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How to Curb Comparison and Give Yourself some Grace with Yasmin Vorajee

October 25, 2022 by Niiamah Ashong Leave a Comment

Yasmin Vorajee, who has run her own business for more than a decade helping clients with their marketing, messaging and strategy, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about comparison, grace and following your joy. She explains why she always looks for the backstory behind someone's quick success, and how letting go of where clients will come from opened her to opportunities she never expected. What emerged is a shared recognition that both of them are much further along than they give themselves credit for.

Episode at a glance

Guest: Yasmin Vorajee, Business owner, author and teacher who helps clients with their marketing, messaging and strategy
Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released October 25, 2022
Format: conversation, 49 minutes
Topics: Knowing the backstory, Grace instead of comparison, Presence in client work, Following your joy, Detaching from the outcome, Sharing your message anyway

What Yasmin brought to the conversation

Yasmin Vorajee is a mother of three who loves cooking and talking with her children as they grow up. After 12 years in corporate, including work in training and HR, she started her own business in 2012, teaching herself to build landing pages before today's tools existed, and she now helps clients find the words for their marketing, messaging and strategy. She sees herself as a teacher, loves webinars, workshops and challenges, and has written a book. Niiamah Ashong remembers meeting her at a conference a few years earlier and being struck by how centered she is: practical, not about hyperbole, and a living example of what works.

What emerged

The central tool is the backstory: Yasmin Vorajee always looks for what sits behind someone's quick success, such as a whole machine behind them, prior experience or financial support, because without it, comparison takes over. Niiamah Ashong shares a saying from his mentor, that people often compare how they feel on the inside with how others look on the outside, and both of them name the voice that says they should be further along. Her answer is grace: she did the very best she could with what she had and what she knew, and releasing the need to know where clients will come from has been one of her biggest lessons.

Questions this episode answers

How can a leader stop comparing themselves to others online?

Yasmin Vorajee always looks for the backstory, because nobody starts from just doing it and it being amazing. Many people who seem to have succeeded quickly had a whole machine behind them, prior experience or financial support, and knowing that lets her give herself grace instead of expecting so much.

Why detach from where clients will come from?

A mentor helped Yasmin Vorajee see that just the act of putting something out there and sharing can bring clients through completely different avenues than expected. She realized she had been so attached to how they would come that she wasn't open to all the different ways they could come to her.

Do likes and comments show whether marketing is working?

Yasmin Vorajee tells clients they're not posting for the comments or the likes, because there are lurkers who watch without ever engaging. On a recent sales call, a prospective client told her she watched all her videos and felt as if they'd already had the conversation.

How can a coach be fully present with clients?

A few minutes before client calls, Yasmin Vorajee says a short prayer to be fully present, so that whatever needs to come through her to them comes through like a clear channel. She has found that putting herself under pressure to have all the answers doesn't work for her.

How can positive relationships lead to new business?

Yasmin Vorajee wants every interaction she has to be a positive one. At a networking event, she gave the keynote speaker, whom she knew through a professional speaking association, a copy of her book as a gift, and the speaker then asked her to deliver training for their company.

In their words

I was so attached to how they would come that I wasn't open to the possibility of all the different ways that they could come to me.
Yasmin Vorajee

That's not why you're doing it, though. You're not doing it for the comments, you're not doing it for the likes.
Yasmin Vorajee

I am standing on the shoulders of giants.
Yasmin Vorajee

Key moments

01:34 – First meeting at a conference

08:17 – From corporate to her own business

11:24 – Always looking for the backstory

13:58 – A prayer to be fully present

16:06 – A teacher since childhood

17:42 – Detaching from the outcome

22:24 – Not posting for the likes

28:45 – Standing on the shoulders of giants

33:56 – Further along than they think

39:34 – A gifted book opens a door

About Niiamah Ashong

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Setting Your BEST and WORST Foot Forward in Every Walk You Do with Mike Harris

October 20, 2022 by Niiamah Ashong Leave a Comment

Mike Harris, a coach and woodworker who championed Niiamah Ashong as he was building his coaching business, joins him on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about setting both the best foot and the worst foot forward. The conversation moves from straight talk over sounding deep to woodworking as a practice of self-forgiveness. What emerged is self-forgiveness as an active practice: catching the mistake, cleaning it up, and playing both roles at once.

Episode at a glance

Guest: Mike Harris, Coach and woodworker
Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released October 20, 2022
Format: conversation, 48 minutes
Topics: Best foot and worst foot forward, Straight talk over sounding deep, Learning through implementation, Woodworking as a practice, Self-forgiveness as a practice, Playing both roles inside ourselves

What Mike brought to the conversation

Mike Harris has been woodworking for 15 years. He picked it up out of necessity to fix his own home, found the art in it, and made pieces to give as gifts; about a year before this conversation, at his wife's suggestion, he put a shop together again and turned it into a business. He has had a lot of coaching conversations over the years, and Niiamah Ashong credits him with championing him as he figured out how to build a coaching business. Years ago Mike walked Niiamah through a process for naming the context, vision and results of how he wanted to create himself as a leader, and Niiamah still listens to the result as his manifesto.

What emerged

The central shift is in how self-forgiveness actually works. Mike Harris describes forgiveness as the lever: when he makes a mistake in the shop, he catches the instinct to be hard on himself, tells himself it's okay, and cleans it up, and the cleanup is part of the forgiveness. Niiamah Ashong, who asked to explore the topic, tried it out in real time and saw that on an unconventional path that forgiveness needs to come from within, with a new level of levity. Mike Harris adds that people play two roles inside themselves all the time, the one giving judgment, acceptance or forgiveness and the one receiving it, and that becoming aware of that dance is the foundation of creating the present moment and the future.

Questions this episode answers

Why does a polished best foot forward sometimes land less than the unpolished version?

Mike Harris says much of what people call their best foot forward is manufactured and rehearsed, and not quite who they are. Someone once told him she could tell when he was trying to sound deep, and he noticed that when he just says what's on his mind in a straightforward way, even stumbling through it, that is sometimes the most impactful thing for someone else.

Why can a leader hear something new in the same book after many listens?

Niiamah Ashong has listened to one mentor's book probably over 30 times, and the words never change. What changes is whether he has implemented it: after trying it in his life, he comes back as a different person hearing the same thing. Mike Harris adds that conceptually many things feel profound, but experientially everything is profound.

What does self-forgiveness look like in practice?

Mike Harris has been woodworking for 15 years and still makes at least a little mistake on every piece. In the example he gives, when he cuts an extra two inches off a piece, he catches the instinct to be hard on himself, tells himself it's okay, and cleans it up, and he sees the cleanup as part of the forgiveness. He plays both roles: the forgiver and the one being forgiven.

How is self-forgiveness different from self-acceptance?

Niiamah Ashong asked Mike Harris exactly this. Mike said forgiveness feels like the lever, because something specific happened, and he compared it to a five-year-old knocking over a drink at the dinner table, where cleaning it up together says not only that the child is forgiven but that someone has their back.

Why does self-forgiveness matter for leaders on unconventional paths?

Niiamah Ashong says self-forgiveness matters especially when leaders are doing things that are a first for them or have never been done before. It is one thing to have a parental figure say it's okay and all is forgiven, and another to reach the stage where that needs to come from within, and he found a new level of levity in playing that role for himself.

In their words

Conceptually there are a lot of things that feel profound, but experientially everything's profound.
Mike Harris

And then we clean it up, and the cleanup is part of the forgiveness.
Mike Harris

Key moments

00:31 – A longtime champion joins the show

04:41 – Best foot and worst foot forward

08:19 – Straight talk over sounding deep

10:54 – Hearing the same book differently

17:09 – Coming back to woodworking

18:43 – Self-forgiveness at the workbench

28:40 – Where his self-forgiveness practice began

33:57 – The cleanup is part of forgiveness

39:37 – Playing both roles inside ourselves

About Niiamah Ashong

Work with Niiamah: 1:1 with Niiamah | World of Difference

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Incorporating Play Into Your Worklife with Steven Mays

October 18, 2022 by Niiamah Ashong Leave a Comment

Steven Mays, a biohacker who sees life as a game, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about bringing play into work. He shares how he gamifies growth with bite-sized steps, simple brain games and clear ways to keep score, while Niiamah Ashong applies it in real time to the monthly quests he is designing at Outlier's Edge. What emerged is a three-step way to turn a heavy goal into a game: make it fun, keep it bite-sized, and measure the wins.

Episode at a glance

Guest: Steven Mays, Biohacker who sees life as a game
Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released October 18, 2022
Format: conversation, 41 minutes
Topics: Life as a game, Fun as part of the process, Bite-sized wins, Training an adaptable brain, Replacing work with play, Keeping score with standards and metrics

What Steven brought to the conversation

Steven Mays describes his mission as being creative and playful, exploring his imagination and sharing it with others. What makes him distinct, beyond any title or his role as a father, is gamifying things: to him life is a game, and he wants to play rather than sit on the sidelines. He is building a biohacking brand, trains his own brain with simple ball games that build adaptability, and works from a framework with five pillars, one of which is recovery. Niiamah Ashong sees in him a distinct presence and someone who keeps investing in his own growth.

What emerged

The central insight is that play and results aren't opposites. Listening to Steven Mays, Niiamah Ashong saw that a game can deliver the same outcome as a KPI while feeling completely different to pursue, and he left with at least four ways to bring that into his client work and the monthly quests at Outlier's Edge. Steven Mays framed why it works: a person's state right now is what creates the future, so engaging fun, creativity and playfulness in the present moment is how the vision gets built.

Questions this episode answers

How can a leader gamify a big goal?

Steven Mays uses three steps: make it fun from the onset, because fun is part of the process; make it bite-sized so it's easy to say yes to; and set the standards and metrics to measure wins and losses by. Repeating that cycle reinforces a person's belief that they can make things happen, and three days like that build momentum.

Why do small steps work better than big leaps?

Steven Mays says a grand vision can feel like so much that people do nothing today, while three small steps give momentum and are like the equivalent of a big step. For a proposal 12 times larger than usual, he would start with just three outbound phone calls to people who would be fun to connect with. Niiamah Ashong compares it to building muscle: as the muscles get stronger, the same effort carries further.

How can play make work feel lighter?

Steven Mays notices that words like work, payroll and boss can feel heavy and bring up an image of stress, so he tried replacing work with play in how he describes things. Describing a situation in a way that keeps him playful lets him think creatively and have more influence over the outcome, even if the game that day is simply encouraging three co-workers.

What does a simple ball game have to do with business?

Steven Mays uses ball games, like tossing a ball from hand to hand so it crosses his midline, to keep his brain adaptable, and he treats every drop as positive reinforcement because the brain learns from it. He says that what works with the ball works in business too: with calls, with leads and with enrollment.

Why play a game when you can't predict the outcome?

Steven Mays says that's the point: anything can happen in a game, which is where the fun and excitement lie, and people still play even when they try to predict the result. Niiamah Ashong holds a similar view of his own work: it isn't about the outcome but about creating a space where something different can occur.

In their words

If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong.
Steven Mays

Three small steps give you momentum, and that's like the equivalent of taking a big step.
Steven Mays

Every time you drop the ball it's actually a positive thing, it's positive reinforcement for your brain.
Steven Mays

Key moments

05:40 – Creating the sandbox

09:18 – Life is a game

12:25 – Anything can happen in a game

13:26 – Designing monthly quests

16:02 – Fun first, then bite size

17:37 – Three outbound calls to start

21:49 – Games that train the brain

29:02 – Living from the vision now

32:42 – Replacing work with play

35:17 – Three steps to gamify anything

About Niiamah Ashong

Work with Niiamah: 1:1 with Niiamah | World of Difference

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