Niiamah Ashong

Tina Collins, an award-winning coach to executives and their teams, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about using her unique traits to lead in tense environments. She shares how humor about herself puts teams at ease so the real work can happen, and why she takes her work seriously without taking herself seriously. What emerged is her vision for a place where leaders practice leadership over the long term, the way athletes train for game day.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Tina Collins, Award-winning coach to executives and their teams
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released December 20, 2022
• Format: conversation, 50 minutes
• Topics: Humor as a leadership edge, Taking the work seriously, not herself, Being an outlier, Creating your own belonging, Practicing leadership like an athlete, Essential skills, not soft skills

What Tina brought to the conversation

Tina Collins spent about 26 years consulting globally, on teams that accomplished extraordinary things, including saving lives in Afghanistan. She came to see that the best part of her consulting was coaching, and she now helps leaders and their teams outperform and live up to their potential, which she calls the greatest work of her life. Her edge is a really good sense of humor, especially about herself, and she says she almost has people in stitches within the first 60 seconds, which puts them at ease so they're able to hear differently. She has also trademarked a word, commonly used in the 1400s, that names the space between where a person is and where they want to be.

What emerged

The central distinction is one Tina Collins names herself: she doesn't take herself seriously, but she takes her work really seriously. Early in her career she played the part in gray suits and heels, and when she later practiced her stand-up comedy material on her colleagues, she found they were more invested and trusted and respected her more. On belonging, she is moving from looking outside for a place to belong to looking inward and creating that place through her own vision. Niiamah Ashong sees her vision of a place to practice leadership as the direction the learning industry is heading: people have access to information, and what they don't have access to is experience.

Questions this episode answers

How can a leader use humor to put a team at ease during change?

With the latest team she onboarded, Tina Collins held conversations with each person before the first meeting, then used what she learned to bring humor into the room. She told the team right off the bat that she wasn't going to flip the table right now, and when the whole team laughed together, the anxiety and fear went way down because they knew they were going to have some fun.

What does it mean to take your work seriously without taking yourself seriously?

Tina Collins separates what she does from who she is: she listens deeply and asks super prickly questions, and who she is, in her words, is a source of levity, peace, comfort, hope and fun. She believes that when people see someone having fun while doing really tough work, it feels less intimidating, less scary and more possible.

Why isn't reading about leadership enough to become a better leader?

Tina Collins notes there are over a billion articles on what leaders need to be, but reading about good listening doesn't teach the nuance of great listening. She says leaders need an ecosystem for long-term practice, the way Olympic athletes put in hours and hours of dedicated training.

Are soft skills really the hard skills in leadership?

Niiamah Ashong argues the so-called soft skills are the hardest skills, and Tina Collins calls them essential skills. She says working out the resources, cost and time a plan needs is easy compared with getting a team to work optimally, which she calls the harder skill, hands down.

What does it mean to be an outlier as a leader?

Tina Collins pictures a herd in a field with one animal off to the side, someone willing to separate from the group to explore and have their own adventures. Niiamah Ashong adds that this outlier could walk right back but has chosen something different, and he sees being an outlier as a competitive edge.

In their words

I really don't take myself seriously, but I take my work really seriously.

Tina Collins

If people see you having fun while you're doing really tough work, it's less intimidating, it's less scary, it's more possible.

Tina Collins

This desire to always have a place where I belonged may not exist. I may have to create it.

Tina Collins

Key moments

06:12 – From global consulting to coaching

14:21 – What an outlier looks like

16:23 – Humor as her unique advantage

18:58 – Onboarding a new team with humor

22:32 – Serious about the work, not herself

25:05 – Earning trust through stand-up comedy

26:38 – The person versus the product

34:17 – Creating her own place to belong

37:22 – A practice center for leaders

41:57 – Soft skills are essential skills

Enter Tina Collins’s world

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About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Kim Tice, a coach and recruiter for creative people after 18 years in advertising, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about realizing a vision through teamwork. She describes her gift as enabling visionary thinkers and translating big ideas into action with a team behind her. What emerged is a sharper idea of team: not just people pulled together, but people who see and understand each other's strengths and weaknesses.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Kim Tice, Coach and recruiter for creative people, after 18 years in advertising
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released December 13, 2022
• Format: conversation, 54 minutes
• Topics: Vision and execution, It takes a team, Being seen and understood, Playing to strengths, Outliers and creativity, Creating spaces for courage

What Kim brought to the conversation

Kim Tice spent 18 years in the advertising industry on the business side, as a true partner to the creative team in coming up with big ideas, then transitioned into coaching and recruiting, still surrounded by creative people. She used to call herself a great number two, and now sees herself as an enabler of visionary thinkers who figures out how to get the work done, sell it through and get other people to believe in it. Niiamah Ashong trusts her not just to hold his vision but to carry it forward, and he sees her as someone who chooses to live in the fullness and richness of all life has to offer. With a colleague from the ad industry, she is creating programs to serve people in the creative industry.

What emerged

Kim Tice reframes the challenge for visionary leaders: they can cover a wall with ideas, but no one can do anything alone, and ideas that big need a team. She asks why anyone would pretend to be something they're not, when someone else's strength may simply be execution. When Niiamah Ashong asks her to put that question to him, he explores how being a chameleon has let him keep stepping into rooms where people play bigger games, and Kim adds that the right team is made of people who can see and understand each other. She also notices that what Niiamah did on his best team, talking to people and creating spaces where people feel courageous enough to be themselves, is exactly what he does now.

Questions this episode answers

Can a visionary leader succeed alone?

Kim Tice says no one can do anything alone, and visionary ideas are often so big that one or two people can't carry them. Her gift is supporting the vision, delegating and managing people to keep it moving forward, because not everyone can translate a vision into action.

What makes a great team?

Kim Tice says it's not just about pulling people together to be a team, but pulling together people who see and understand each other's strengths and weaknesses. Without that, she says, a leader can hire anyone under the sun and it's not the right team.

Why stop comparing yourself to people who seem to execute easily?

Kim Tice calls comparison the thief of joy, and notes that the people who seem to execute easily may simply have their strength in execution and project management. She asks why anyone would pretend to be something they're not, since in her own experience trying to be something she's not has taken her further from the goal she set out to reach.

What do the greatest teams have in common?

Niiamah Ashong believes the greatest teams find a way to tap into the outlier mindset, drawing on the different experiences of the people on the team while creating enough psychological safety for them to show up as they are. Kim Tice connects this to advertising, which she says is largely made of outliers, and senses a connection between creativity and outliers.

Who should a leader surround themselves with?

Kim Tice says that as she's gotten older she cares less about having commonalities with groups and is magnetized to the people who can see and understand her. She has many really good friends, and a core set who truly understand and see her.

In their words

I'm an enabler of really visionary thinkers, and I figure out how to get that work done.

Kim Tice

It takes a team. It takes a team to live the life I want.

Kim Tice

It's not just about pulling people together to be a team. It's pulling together people that can see and understand you and understand your strengths, your weaknesses, and you can understand their strengths and weaknesses.

Kim Tice

Key moments

04:09 – Trusted to carry the vision

08:22 – An enabler of visionary thinkers

13:33 – No one does it alone

14:35 – It takes a team

20:51 – Why pretend to be someone else

23:25 – Kim turns the question around

28:06 – The chameleon advantage

34:20 – Teams that see and understand each other

36:25 – The best team Niiamah has known

49:30 – Creating spaces for courage

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Carina Ghionzoli, co-host of the Break Fear, Find Freedom podcast and a published author, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about her mantra, break fear, find freedom. She shares how she moved from self-hatred to self-love, and how she answered a calling to write and publish her book. What emerged is her message that the chains that matter most are the ones in the mind, and that people can break them.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Carina Ghionzoli, Co-host of the Break Fear, Find Freedom podcast and author
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released December 8, 2022
• Format: conversation, 44 minutes
• Topics: Break fear, find freedom, From self-hatred to self-love, Answering a calling, Publishing as freedom, Belonging without compromise, Making up new rules

What Carina brought to the conversation

Carina Ghionzoli has felt like an outlier throughout her life, and she realized that fear and self-hatred were holding her back, then saw the same thing mirrored in so many other people. That is where her mantra came from: break fear, find freedom. A writer with an overactive imagination, she did the work to clear self-hatred and build self-love, belief and confidence, and only recently came out and said, in her words, 'this is me and this is who I stand for and this is who I am.' She recently published a book that came to her as a clear calling while she was journaling, about breaking the chains of the mind and having the courage to do whatever a person needs to do in their life.

What emerged

The turning point Carina Ghionzoli describes came when, after being afraid at first, she decided that her mind would stay free. Her book is less about her own story than about how many people walk around free yet imprisoned by fear, and how to break those chains. Niiamah Ashong connects this to his own work, sharing that he had been creating loneliness through automations and is now bridging it through service and co-creation, and that the rules of the world, and of business, are ones people choose to accept.

Questions this episode answers

Can you actually break fear?

Carina Ghionzoli says no one can really break fears: they move, they transform and they still hide under the bed sometimes, but it doesn't matter. Her mantra, in her words, is 'if we can break the fear, we can find the freedom, whatever it is.'

Why does self-love matter for a leader?

Carina Ghionzoli calls self-love an internal job, and says that without it the love people give everybody else is always a conditional love, which they don't realize until they start doing the work. She also notes that when people turn around and help someone else, it helps them grow and learn too.

What does it take to publish something deeply personal?

Carina Ghionzoli was so afraid of kickback and of exposing herself that it took her a long time to publish her book, until her podcast co-host kept asking each week how it was coming along. Faced with a publish button and a delete button, she pressed publish, and she says it was freedom on so many levels and gave her permission to show herself.

How do you find belonging when you feel alone in a crowded room?

Carina Ghionzoli once felt alone in a crowded, loud room, partly because most people around her were speaking a language she had only just started learning. She learned that no one has to be alone or compromise themselves to be part of a group, because people find others who resonate with them and connect almost on a soul level.

Are the rules of business fixed?

Niiamah Ashong says the world is an accumulation of things people made up, and there are no real rules, in business or anywhere else, other than the ones people choose to accept, so anyone can create a new rule. Carina Ghionzoli adds that she experiences this daily, seeing miracles and then realizing that's how she created them.

In their words

It's having the courage to say this is who I am.

Carina Ghionzoli

I was so tempted at that moment to just delete it, but I didn't. I pressed publish instead.

Carina Ghionzoli

Key moments

04:11 – The gift of an unscripted conversation

06:50 – Break fear, find freedom

09:27 – Owning the word self-hatred

16:08 – The courage to say who she is

19:47 – The calling to write the book

21:19 – Publish or delete

25:28 – Her mind stays free

28:38 – Alone in a crowded room

34:52 – Service as the bridge to belonging

36:54 – Rules people choose to accept

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Allison Crow, a coach of almost 20 years and host of The Wild Edge of Being Human podcast, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about being intentional in creating and being part of community. She explains why people need to be in each other's presence, and why leaders need places where they don't have to lead. What emerged is permission to be fully human: to grieve what is missing, to own the choices behind each season of life, and to cultivate what is missing in the present moment.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Allison Crow, Coach of almost 20 years, author and host of The Wild Edge of Being Human podcast
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released December 6, 2022
• Format: conversation, 52 minutes
• Topics: Intentional community, Co-regulation and the nervous system, Spaces where leaders don't lead, Tenderness for strong people, Grief without shame, Chosen seasons of life

What Allison brought to the conversation

Allison Crow has been coaching for almost 20 years and leads a coaching membership by application, where some of the best recent coaching has come from guest teachers, student teachers and coaches standing in their own gifts. Niiamah Ashong calls her a mentor, and he remembers the moment at an intensive when she saw what someone in the room needed and simply invited her over for a hug. She believes the strongest people need tenderness, and need to learn tenderness with themselves. Her book on finding home in the wild edges of being human, coming out December 6, is about learning to welcome all parts of a person and be with their protective devices compassionately, not getting rid of them or fixing them.

What emerged

Allison Crow says that after years of connecting through screens, people need to be in each other's presence, because some co-regulation happens only there and new behavior can't take hold when the nervous system is in a reactive or protective state. Niiamah Ashong recognizes that he had been creating separateness by waiting to be invited, and he is now choosing to show up in his own community. Allison adds that some seasons are chosen, like the months she spent helping her parents, and that it's possible to grieve what's missing while owning that she chose it. A friend's words reframed it for her: there's no going back to who she was, only who she is right now.

Questions this episode answers

Why do leaders need in-person community?

Allison Crow explains that some co-regulation happens only when people are in the presence of other human beings, and that no one can learn something new or adopt new behavior when their nervous system is in a reactive or protective state. She says that in a world where so much can happen online, people have got to be so intentional.

Why do leaders need spaces where they don't have to lead?

Allison Crow leads her own community but misses the conferences and intensives that somebody else puts on, where she can be a client or a community member. Niiamah Ashong points to the value of going into spaces where a leader can be led or just hang out.

Is it okay for a leader to feel lonely or overwhelmed?

When a client said she was overwhelmed and that it wasn't enlightened, Allison Crow answered that grieving and loneliness are not negative states and not things to be ashamed of. She says a person can be lonely and be a leader, and can be okay and not okay at the same time.

How do you honor a season when you chose to step back from growing your business?

Allison Crow chose to spend five months helping her parents, telling clients she was serving current clients and her family and not selling anything. She says she can have the grief of what she's missing while knowing she chose it, and now she asks how she will be intentional about bringing community back into her life.

How can a leader rebuild community after a period of isolation?

Niiamah Ashong shares that after closing things off during lockdown, it became harder to get back in, and a friend recommended he go do what he used to do. He joined a beach handball group, is getting his son involved in soccer, and chose to give as though the four blocks around him are all of his city.

In their words

My people need tenderness. The strongest people I know need tenderness, and they need to learn tenderness with themselves.

Allison Crow

This is the world we live in. We live in a world where we can do this now, but we have got to be so intentional.

Allison Crow

It is not a moral failure. It is not bad to be grieving, to be lonely.

Allison Crow

Key moments

03:39 – A hug that showed how to serve

06:16 – The strongest people need tenderness

08:20 – Better together in community

11:30 – Co-regulation and the nervous system

16:47 – A neighborhood held together by family

20:28 – Niiamah's way back into community

33:57 – Seasons of chosen duty

37:07 – Only who she is right now

40:51 – Grief is not a moral failure

48:43 – Her book and how to connect

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Taryell Simmons, an equity, diversity and inclusion leader and podcast host, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about finding his place across cultures. Raised between a Nigerian household and Black American culture, he shares how he came to see having both cultures as a gift. What emerged is his calling to create authentic human connection and brave spaces, and his decision, rooted in his daughter, to be a voice.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Taryell Simmons, Equity, diversity and inclusion leader and podcast host
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released December 1, 2022
• Format: conversation, 51 minutes
• Topics: Growing up between two cultures, Authentic human connection, Safe spaces and brave spaces, Holding space for honest dialogue, Representation for the next generation, How he creates himself as a leader

What Taryell brought to the conversation

Taryell Simmons says his most important title is Dad, and bringing his daughter, now six, into the world changed how he looks at life and how he creates. Born in New York and raised in Washington, DC by a father who immigrated from Nigeria, he grew up between Nigerian culture at home and Black American culture outside it, and later in life learned to embrace that as a gift. He does diversity, equity and inclusion work, went on to head equity, diversity and inclusion for an entire county, and started a podcast to normalize Black excellence in its many forms so young people can see what is possible for them. Niiamah Ashong describes the tremendous heart he brings to everything he does.

What emerged

The central thread is courage in connection. During lockdown, when no one at his workplace was talking about what was happening in the world, Taryell Simmons found the courage to hold space for his team to have an honest dialogue about what everyone was experiencing, which he calls the hardest thing he has ever had to do. That first conversation led to more sessions across a 20,000-person organization. Niiamah Ashong names it as showing up as a leader in a moment when people were searching for leadership, and Taryell Simmons roots it in his daughter: he decided he would be a voice and create the spaces that need to be created.

Questions this episode answers

How can growing up between two cultures become a leadership gift?

Taryell Simmons grew up between Nigerian culture at home and Black American culture outside it, without fully belonging to either. He came to see having both cultures as a gift that lets him see how connections create belonging, and he says both can be true at the same time.

What is the difference between a safe space and a brave space?

Taryell Simmons describes his calling as creating deep bonds between people so they feel seen, heard and valued. He wants to create not just safe spaces but brave spaces, where people can bring the things that are not so pretty, have breakthroughs and build trust with one another.

How can a leader open an honest conversation about race at work?

Taryell Simmons faced his own insecurity and fears and held space for his team to talk about what everyone was experiencing and when each person first learned about race, so they could understand each other. That conversation led to more sessions across a 20,000-person organization and to his role heading equity, diversity and inclusion for the whole county.

Why does representation matter for young people?

Taryell Simmons heard from the youth he spoke to that they had limiting beliefs about what they could be, based on the examples around them. He started his podcast to normalize Black excellence in its many forms, because, as he puts it, the next group of leaders can't be what they can't see.

How do you keep creating yourself as a leader?

Taryell Simmons says he is in a forever state of evolution because he is always learning and investing in becoming the best version of himself. He grounds himself in not living someone else's life, asking who he is now, who he is trying to become and how he wants to grow.

In their words

Celebrate the things that are uniquely different that make up this lovely tapestry of us being together in community.

Taryell Simmons

I am going to be a voice, I am going to create spaces, I'm no longer going to play small.

Taryell Simmons

They can't be what they can't see.

Taryell Simmons

Key moments

03:08 – The tremendous heart he brings

05:45 – Dad is his most important title

07:17 – Growing up between two cultures

13:29 – The gumbo metaphor for inclusion

16:41 – A calling to create human connection

18:45 – Leaning into vulnerability

22:25 – The hardest conversation he led

30:43 – Deciding to be a voice

36:56 – Why he started his podcast

45:15 – How he creates himself

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Alisa Manjarrez, who runs a marketing agency, hosts a podcast and leads an executive coaching practice, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about letting the world know all that she is. She shares how she has become even more okay with being too hard to explain, and the book that is starting to brew in her. What emerged is that showing up in her own way is exactly what helps other people feel they belong.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Alisa Manjarrez, Marketing agency leader, podcast host and executive coach
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released November 29, 2022
• Format: conversation, 50 minutes
• Topics: Wearing many hats, A passion-packed life, Early indicators and burnout, Faith and a book in the making, Being seen for what a person chose, Showing up so others belong

What Alisa brought to the conversation

Alisa Manjarrez lives what she calls a passion-packed life. She runs a marketing agency with a team of creative friends, telling stories with Fortune 500 companies and producing podcasts, hosts a podcast about outsmarting the game to advance in a career, and has an executive coaching practice. Niiamah Ashong describes her as someone who brings every part of herself into a relationship, showing him that friendship and real work can share one relationship, and that relationships where everything is on the table have the longest legs. A book is starting to take shape about how to co-create a life with God, and the layers she wants to share include her faith, her career drive, her coaching, her creativity and her philosophy on life.

What emerged

The central thread is being seen in full. At a recent business event for Latina women, Alisa Manjarrez didn't feel represented even though many of her layers were in the room, and for the first time she felt alone with power: she decided it was time to share all of herself. A friend once pointed out that by simply showing up on a podcast with her brother, she was representing people like her. She now sees that when she shows up in her own way, someone else relates and feels like they belong, and Niiamah Ashong names the gift in that: in choosing to show up, they create space for other people.

Questions this episode answers

How do you explain what you do when you wear many hats?

Alisa Manjarrez says she has always had her hand in ten things, which makes it hard to explain who she is and what she does, and she doesn't feel true to herself when she's only doing one thing. Her growth has come from being even more okay with it being too hard to explain or too hard for people to understand.

How can a leader with many projects tell when they're taking on too much?

Alisa Manjarrez separates small, avoidable mistakes from burnout. The small mistakes are early indicators of too much on her plate for a period of time, while burnout builds over a long time and often came from doing things for other people without respecting her own boundaries. Noticing the indicators earlier, she says, has made her burnout less over the years.

What does it mean to be seen for who you've chosen to be?

Niiamah Ashong says that being categorized by things he didn't choose, like his skin tone, misses the mark, and that what matters is seeing and honoring the things a person has chosen. He connects it to Alisa Manjarrez's experience at an event that covered many of her layers, where she still didn't feel represented.

Where do you find belonging when you often feel like the only one?

Alisa Manjarrez feels most at home with her immediate family, and over the years she has learned to find friends who each share some of her favorite things, from her culture to going deep on faith to art. She says she has learned to take advantage of the beauty of other people despite differences.

How does showing up as yourself help other people belong?

Alisa Manjarrez says she can't stay in the feeling of being the only one for long, because when she shows up in her own way, someone else relates and feels like they belong. Niiamah Ashong adds that people have told him they had never seen a Black coach before, and that by choosing to show up, they create space for others.

In their words

I'm even more okay with it being too hard to explain or too hard for people to understand.

Alisa Manjarrez

When I do show up in my own way, someone else relates and feels like they belong.

Alisa Manjarrez

In choosing to be and choosing to show up, we actually create a lot of space for some other people.

Niiamah Ashong

Key moments

02:37 – Gratitude and the power of friendship

05:43 – Always having a hand in ten things

09:23 – Okay with being hard to explain

09:54 – Heralding every title

14:05 – Early indicators versus burnout

19:46 – The book that is brewing

21:21 – Feeling alone with power

32:46 – Being seen for what a person chose

37:29 – Not supposed to be here, and yet

42:38 – Showing up so others belong

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Coach Kym, a coach whose career has run through entertainment, sports and corporate communications, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about going against the grain. She shares how she came to own the title of coach on her own terms, without a certification or anyone else's methodology. What emerged is a simple practice for leaders: walking away from the herd, choosing themselves first, and treating every result as either a win or a lesson.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: Coach Kym, Coach with roots in entertainment, sports and corporate communications
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released November 24, 2022
• Format: conversation, 40 minutes
• Topics: Owning the title of coach, Fulfillment through others' success, Going against the grain, Win or learn, Choosing herself first

What Coach brought to the conversation

Coach Kym has coached people throughout her career, from crews of dancers, music artists and performers in entertainment, to a sports label, to the corporate communications agency she ran, where the best part was nurturing her team. She began working wholly as a coach in 2018, and her corporate clients told her she was naturally motivational and nurturing and liked to find the strengths in people. Her work with clients comes from her own expertise and experience, and she says she does not stop until the people she works with are incredible. She is experimenting with new work about defying what the world says people should be, and her fire comes from watching other people fly.

What emerged

The central shift is from earning the title of coach to owning it. Coach Kym read the books and took the courses, found none of it felt like her, and chose to walk in a different direction. When someone who knew her from her entertainment years, and whom she hadn't seen in 15 years, told her she had always been the coach, everything fell into place, because it's who she is, not the methodology or the title. Niiamah Ashong heard in her story the path he calls owning your outlier and blazing your trail, and they landed on the same practice: choosing themselves again and again.

Questions this episode answers

Can you be a coach without a coaching certification?

Coach Kym is not certified by any coaching authority, and at first she thought that meant she couldn't call herself a coach. Everything she does with clients comes from her own expertise and experience, and when she signed her first high-level client and did it her way, without following anybody else's methodology, the client got incredible results, so she did it again and again.

Where does a coach's fulfillment come from?

Coach Kym had incredible success in her career, yet she didn't feel she had quite made it even when everyone around her said she had. She recently realized her fulfillment comes from the success of others, and seeing someone she works with say they did it fulfills her far beyond any stage she has performed on.

Why does going against the grain matter for leaders?

Coach Kym says finding one's alignment is terrifying because it likely means going against the majority and its top 10 tips for success. When she walked away from the herd and blazed her own trail, her work started to feel like joy, because she was curating the experience from her own learnings and data. She says someone who isn't aligned with what they do may be working hard, but isn't doing their best work.

Is choosing yourself first selfish?

Coach Kym says many people shy away from choosing themselves because it feels selfish, but it's the complete opposite: choosing oneself first puts a person in a position to be so much to so many people and serve on a much greater level. Niiamah Ashong describes the same practice in his own work as choosing himself over and over again.

How can a leader turn every result into a lesson?

Coach Kym says there's no way she can lose or fail, because either she wins or she learns, and she welcomed mistakes because each one got her closer to getting it right. Niiamah Ashong tells his team they need to go beyond being willing to fail to wanting to fail, because it's about living, experiencing, learning and choosing more of what works.

In their words

My fulfillment isn't my own success, it's the success of others, and that is why I'm a coach.

Coach Kym

There's no way I can lose, there's no way I can fail, because either we win or we learn.

Coach Kym

You have to choose you first before you can go out there and be the power that you need to be for others.

Coach Kym

Key moments

06:41 – Leaning into being a coach

07:45 – Fulfillment through others' success

13:28 – Coaching through every career

18:09 – Stepping fully into coaching

21:16 – Signing her first high-level client

22:47 – You've always been the coach

26:26 – Going against the grain

28:31 – Win or learn

34:54 – Choosing herself first

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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David Taylor-Klaus, a professional coach and the creator of Better Human Better Life, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about what it takes to live a better life. He shares why he markets by giving people what they need rather than poking at their pain, and walks through the five elements of his approach: grace, space, flow, knowing and aliveness. What emerged is his core belief that the best way for a person to get better at what they do is to get better at being who they are at their core.

Episode at a glance

• Guest: David Taylor-Klaus, Professional coach and creator of Better Human Better Life
• Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
• Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released November 22, 2022
• Format: conversation, 44 minutes
• Topics: Being before doing, Life first, with fabulous work in it, Marketing without poking the pain, Grace and space, Flow and inner knowing, Expanding aliveness

What David brought to the conversation

David Taylor-Klaus is starting his 14th year as a professional coach, and Niiamah Ashong describes him as a masterful coach and a masterful human he turns to with questions about business, integrity and becoming a father. He introduces himself as a husband, parent and friend who gets paid to be a coach; he and his wife share offices, have been married over 30 years, and have three kids and a daughter-in-law. He has been involved in the advertising and marketing space since the mid-to-late 1990s, when he launched an internet strategy and web development company. Now he is creating Better Human Better Life, a framework and a community that make conscious the process he has been taking his clients through.

What emerged

The central idea is that being comes before doing. David Taylor-Klaus believes the best way to get better at doing is to get better at being who a person is at their core, and his five elements map how that happens: grace and space feed each other, flow lets inner knowing surface, and aliveness expands each time through the loop. Niiamah Ashong heard in it a principled path to aliveness he had not heard anyone describe before, and saw it as a light on a path people are already walking.

Questions this episode answers

What does it mean to be a better human?

David Taylor-Klaus says most people try to get better at doing what they do, but the best way is to get better at being who they are at their core. Better human isn't better in the eyes of anyone else, a culture or an influencer: it starts with where a person is out of alignment with their values and where messages from socialization or education are off target with who they are, and as that gets cleaner, everything they do in the world gets better.

How can a business market without poking at people's pain?

David Taylor-Klaus has worked in the advertising and marketing space since the mid-to-late 1990s, and he no longer wants to play the game of poking at what wakes people up at three in the morning, or marketing chocolate and then delivering broccoli. He wants to market, sell and serve by giving people who want what they need exactly that, and he frames it simply: everyone has their own language for what they want to be different, and all of it fits under a better life.

What are the five elements of Better Human Better Life?

David Taylor-Klaus names grace, space, flow, knowing and aliveness. Grace, a form of acceptance and empathy for oneself, for others and for one's circumstances, opens up space, and space makes room for more grace, so together they are the engine. Flow lets inner, somatic knowing surface, and as each element grows, aliveness expands in a loop a person goes through again and again.

How can a leader get into flow more often?

David Taylor-Klaus uses breath and meditation: he meditates every morning and takes time to breathe and get centered before every coaching call, podcast appearance or time on stage, because being fully present is when he creates the impact he is here to create. He also records client sessions so both he and the client can stay in flow instead of taking notes. Niiamah Ashong connected this to grace: giving oneself ten minutes to get ready instead of insisting on already being ready.

What does it look like to build your world around life rather than work?

David Taylor-Klaus introduces himself as a husband, parent and friend who gets paid to be a coach, and he says his greatest accomplishments live in his personal world. His world is oriented around having a life, and part of that life is doing some fabulous work out in the world.

In their words

I have a fundamental belief that blank space is the container within which, and the only container within which, we can create and co-create with the universe.

David Taylor-Klaus

I want to market and sell and provide and serve by giving folks who want what they need what they need.

David Taylor-Klaus

The best way to get better at doing what you do is to get better at being who you be, who you are at your core.

David Taylor-Klaus

Key moments

05:44 – Introducing himself by who he is

07:17 – A life with fabulous work in it

08:51 – Blank space as a container

10:56 – Marketing without poking the pain

15:36 – Being before doing

19:48 – Musical chairs for the right seat

23:27 – Five elements of a better life

26:05 – Grace and space as the engine

28:11 – How aliveness expands

33:53 – Breath as a path to flow

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

Work with Niiamah: 1:1 with Niiamah | World of Difference

Continue into Outlier’s Edge World:

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