Niiamah Ashong

How to Seamlessly Apply Courage in Your Journey with Amanda Parker

Amanda Parker, a coach and the creator of the T7M Community mastermind, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about courage and how to apply it. She shares why courage looks different for every person, how the rooms people sit in reflect their thinking back to them, and how intuition guides bold moves. What emerged is that listening to intuition and acting in alignment with it creates its own certainty, and the more people know themselves, the easier it is to make moves that once seemed impossible.

Episode at a glance

  • Guest: Amanda Parker, Coach, catalyst for courage and creator of the T7M Community mastermind
  • Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
  • Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released January 31, 2023
  • Format: conversation, 44 minutes
  • Topics: Courage is personal, Courage and confidence, Rooms that reflect people's thinking, Setting a room up for possibility, Listening to intuition, Self-trust

What Amanda brought to the conversation

Amanda Parker describes herself as a catalyst for courage, helping people access a deeper level of themselves and a courage they didn't know was inside them. Her own path took her to two other countries to work in wildlife conservation, moves others called courageous and she says would have been impossible for her not to make. She started her business in 2018, has led many group coaching and leadership development programs, and works with leaders, creators and change makers, many of them in social impact and tech. She created the T7M Community mastermind so people working on their next edge can see they're not alone, build confidence and reach their next level of success.

What emerged

The central insight is that courage is personal: a step others call brave may come naturally, and the real edge lies somewhere else. Amanda Parker ties courage closely to confidence, saying the more a person trusts and knows themselves, the easier it is to make moves that would have seemed impossible before. Niiamah Ashong heard in this that leaders who choose their own path get to create their own certainty, by listening to their intuition and taking action in alignment with it.

Questions this episode answers

What does courage mean for a leader?

Amanda Parker says courage is worth defining because the limit is different for each person: what takes tremendous courage for one person comes naturally to another. People called her moves abroad to work in wildlife conservation courageous, but for her it would have been impossible not to make them, so her edge was somewhere else.

How are courage and confidence connected?

Amanda Parker ties them closely together: the more a person trusts, knows and understands themselves, the easier it is to make moves that would have seemed impossible before. From the outside it looks courageous, but in the moment that person is simply living their life and making choices, and the edge keeps moving.

How does the room a leader is in shape their thinking?

Amanda Parker has noticed that at every stage of her career she has been surrounded by people reflecting back whatever her fears were at the time, from how to get clients to whether her rates were too low. Without an outlier in the room who sees things differently, she says it's really hard to get pulled out of that way of thinking. Niiamah Ashong recalled a group money conversation where one woman said making money wasn't hard for her, which showed him how much groupthink was in that room.

How can a facilitator set a group up to think bigger?

Amanda Parker says the way she sets people up determines what happens in the space: if she frames the room around what isn't working, people bring that energy in. Instead she charges the space with what is possible and what people really want to create, giving them permission to think outside the box, show up fully, dream a little bigger and not be afraid of looking stupid or making silly comments.

How can a leader tell when they're out of alignment?

Amanda Parker says intuition, whether someone calls it an inner voice, wisdom or knowing, speaks to each person differently, and when she ignores her knowing she can tell something is out of alignment. She says the body will show it too, in a different way for each person, and she encourages getting familiar with how one's own intuition speaks through sitting down, journaling and reflecting.

In their words

It's worth defining what courage means, because that limit is really different for each of us.

Amanda Parker

You're creating something that's never been there before, so the only judgment you have is what's coming from within.

Amanda Parker

Key moments

04:13 – A catalyst for courage

07:51 – Defining what courage means

13:34 – Courage and confidence

15:40 – Groupthink in a money circle

21:49 – Setting a room up for possibility

27:35 – Intuition behind bold moves

30:10 – Creators create their own certainty

31:43 – How intuition speaks to each person

38:32 – A mastermind for the next edge

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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I Help People Be Seen, Celebrated and Valued for Who They Are | Interviewed by Abigail Wheeler

On the Outlier's Edge Podcast, Abigail Wheeler interviews Niiamah Ashong about the mission at the core of his work: helping people be seen, celebrated and valued for who they are. He traces it from growing up as a first-generation American and working as a retirement actuary to championing leaders who see the world differently. What emerged is how the way he was being in each career carried into the next, and why he asks leaders what they will do with the safety and authenticity they find.

Episode at a glance

  • Guest: Abigail Wheeler, Podcast host and longtime youth leadership volunteer
  • Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
  • Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released January 24, 2023
  • Format: conversation, 71 minutes
  • Topics: Being seen, celebrated and valued, Receiving excellence, Masking and belonging, From actuary to coach, Coaching through questions, Own your outlier, blaze your trail

What Abigail brought to the conversation

Abigail Wheeler went through a youth leadership program at 16 and has volunteered with it for more than 10 years, helping create a space where young people identified as leaders and change makers feel seen and think about their impact in the world. As she approaches 30, she is moving into learning and development so she can bring what she loves about that work into her career. She started this podcast on her own initiative, and Niiamah Ashong honored her for doing what she does without waiting for approval. In the conversation she reflected back what she sees in him: energy, passion, excellence, intention, commitment, community and impact, and she kept returning to excellence, the word he found hardest to receive.

What emerged

The central shift came when Abigail Wheeler named excellence and Niiamah Ashong noticed he linked it with being polished. She reframed it as being excellent and authentic at the same time, and he saw that he has spent years putting himself in positions where what is natural and genuine to him is the focus, so excellence feels like simply living his life. A through line emerged from his story: it isn't what he did in each career that carried over, it's who he was being, and he now asks the leaders he champions what they will do with the safety and authenticity they find.

Questions this episode answers

What does it mean to help people be seen, celebrated and valued for who they are?

Niiamah Ashong says this is the core of why he is here, and it serves his mission of bringing together a truly inclusive and empowered world. For him, true inclusion means everyone is celebrated and valued, not just allowed in the room but welcomed for what they have to contribute.

How can an actuarial skill set translate into coaching leaders?

As a retirement actuary, Niiamah Ashong put a price on risk and reconciled data year to year, investigating any change outside the expected range. With leaders he runs a kind of internal gain-loss analysis: when someone who has accomplished a great deal says they don't feel enough to handle something that looks a lot smaller, he knows something is off and starts investigating. He says it isn't what he did as an actuary that carried over, but who he was being.

Why can being yourself feel risky for a leader?

Niiamah Ashong says the leaders he champions can get things done, but they tell him it feels risky to speak their truth to power or lead their team from the joyful place they want to. He speaks from experience: around age 30 he realized he had masked himself behind what he thought would keep him safe, and the success he has achieved since embracing who he is has been far greater than what he had before.

Why does Niiamah Ashong coach with questions instead of answers?

He found that people came to him looking for answers he didn't have, but with the right questions they discovered they had the answers themselves or knew exactly how to get them. He avoids handing people answers because that can be disempowering, and he says the process can look slower but in the grand scheme is always faster, because people are transformed.

What are the stages from owning your outlier to shaping your world?

Niiamah Ashong describes three stages: own your outlier, blaze your trail, and shape your world, which he likens to individual, group and societal leadership. Having facilitated a youth leadership program in his twenties, he sees his work as creating that kind of space for adults, whether they find it at 16 or at 36.

In their words

I'm here on this Earth to help people be seen, celebrated and valued for who they are.

Niiamah Ashong

We are all just one in 7.9 billion, but we can be that together.

Niiamah Ashong

I don't work with any person who needs me, I work with people who want me.

Niiamah Ashong

Key moments

02:36 – Receiving the word excellence

05:41 – Seen, celebrated and valued

09:18 – What a goodbye video revealed

13:57 – First-generation American roots

23:17 – Putting a price on risk

30:30 – Gain-loss analysis in coaching

36:12 – Choosing alignment over stability

43:31 – Own your outlier, blaze your trail

53:57 – Questions over answers

66:23 – Assembling a team of superheroes

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Integrating Luxury into Your Everyday Life with Tamara Von Dohren

Tamara Von Dohren of NOIR LUMI joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about integrating luxury into everyday life. She shares why small, personal details matter more than anything with a high price tag, and how she brings that attention into her coaching. What emerged is a conversation about asking for, and receiving, the support and luxury a person wants without hiding it.

Episode at a glance

  • Guest: Tamara Von Dohren, Coach crafting personalized, luxurious experiences in coaching and retreats, through her business NOIR LUMI
  • Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
  • Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released January 17, 2023
  • Format: conversation, 45 minutes
  • Topics: Reinvention across cultures, Crafting personalized experiences, Luxury beyond price tags, Small details that shape an experience, Asking for what people want, Receiving support without hiding it

What Tamara brought to the conversation

Tamara Von Dohren has reinvented herself multiple times in different cultures, including three and a half years in Japan, through careers in radio, event management, marketing and luxury brand sales. That path gave her a unique ability to see things differently and connect dots other people can't see. She expresses it by crafting experiences, from three-course dinner parties for her friends with gold-plated cutlery to client work handcrafted right down to scents and favorite colors, and she is on track to move to Paris permanently, a goal 12 years in the making. Niiamah Ashong describes her as a phoenix who lives many lives, and an action taker who lights a flame under the people around her.

What emerged

The central insight is that luxury is about attention, not cost. Tamara Von Dohren points out that a hotel's signature scent or a favorite drink waiting on a train platform has nothing to do with cost yet shapes the whole experience, and that sometimes luxury is the most simple, most personalized thing. The conversation then turns to receiving: she questions the either or thinking that says successful people don't need anything else while everyone else needs everything. Niiamah Ashong, expecting his second child, shares how he once realized his own upbringing had put an upper limit on where he could be, and works out in real time what support his family really needs. She is fascinated by how much perception can stop people from moving forward.

Questions this episode answers

What makes an experience feel luxurious?

Tamara Von Dohren says people often see luxury as glitz and glamor, but one of the most classic luxuries is a hot bubble bath, because it is multi-sensory, with touch, scent and lighting. She believes sometimes luxury can be the most simple but the most personalized things.

How can you create a high-end experience without spending more?

Tamara Von Dohren points to small details: luxury hotels pump a signature scent into the air conditioning, and when she traveled with executives, she had each person's favorite tea or coffee ready on the train platform. She thinks about what someone was doing before they arrive and how to make the next part of their experience a little more energizing or special.

How does attention to detail show up in coaching?

Tamara Von Dohren gives her clients space to feel what they feel. When a client said she was good but seemed tired, Tamara Von Dohren named it, asked again and started with deep breathing so they could settle into the space.

Why is it hard to ask for what you want?

Tamara Von Dohren says asking for what people want can be viewed as being too picky or as having luxurious tastes, as if only rich people are allowed to do it. She questions the belief that successful people don't need anything else while everyone else needs everything, and asks why it has to be either or.

Is getting support at home a luxury or a need?

Niiamah Ashong says the people bringing big things to life get support, even if it isn't always talked about, and that it would be wonderful not to spend extra energy hiding it. Tamara Von Dohren asks how a nanny could be negative when it supports the children and the family to be stronger, other than the perception.

In their words

I create an experience for my friends, that is my way of expressing how much I value them.

Tamara Von Dohren

Sometimes luxury can be the most simple but the most personalized things.

Tamara Von Dohren

These small things, they don't really have anything to do with the cost.

Tamara Von Dohren

Key moments

04:40 – A phoenix who lives many lives

09:51 – A 12-year path to Paris

12:26 – Reinventing herself across cultures

15:34 – Luxury in its simplest form

20:45 – Small details that shape experiences

22:50 – Anticipating what executives need

25:57 – Giving clients space to feel

29:37 – Asking for what people want

34:50 – Leaders playing big get support

36:55 – How perception holds people back

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Be You, Don’t Turn Down that Intimidation Dial with Michelle Margaret Marques

Michelle Margaret Marques, a bold and direct coach with her own TV channel and summit, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about being called intimidating and why she won't turn that dial down. She explains why the presence that makes some people nervous is exactly what draws the clients who need it, and why who she is at her core is not up for compromise. What emerged is her practice of using fear as fuel: when the feeling of what she wants persists, she treats that fear as desire and goes after it even harder.

Episode at a glance

  • Guest: Michelle Margaret Marques, Coach with her own TV channel and summit, who goes after life on her own terms
  • Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
  • Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released January 10, 2023
  • Format: conversation, 55 minutes
  • Topics: Reframing intimidation, Being clear about who she's for, No compromise at her core, The gift of being too much, From one-to-one to one-to-many, Fear as fuel

What Michelle brought to the conversation

Michelle Margaret Marques describes herself as bold, very real and in your face, someone who goes after life on her terms, which is what she does with her clients. She has a TV channel, runs a summit and has written books, and Niiamah Ashong calls her a powerhouse of a person with a level of accessibility that is unparalleled. Her website says clearly who she is for and who she is definitely not for. She is now focusing more on the one-to-many side of her business and on collaborations with people already in her world, because that is what will bring more impact.

What emerged

The central shift is a new reading of intimidation. A client told Michelle Margaret Marques she was nervous before their first call, yet went ahead with the call because something inside told her Michelle was the person she needed to speak to, and that boldness turned out to be exactly what she needed. Niiamah Ashong shares that, as a Black man, he once heard the word intimidating as a signal of danger, until someone told him even his joy is intimidating. His invitation to leaders is to stop dampening their intensity, and hers is to treat fear as fuel, because that fear is the part that desires more.

Questions this episode answers

What should a leader do when people say they're intimidating?

Niiamah Ashong invites leaders to ask where they are turning down their intimidation game and to turn that dial up, not by trying to be intimidating, but by not dampening their intensity. Michelle Margaret Marques says that someone who feels intimidated but knows deep inside they need that boldness is exactly her person.

Is it a problem if a coach's message repels some people?

Michelle Margaret Marques's website says in big bold letters who she is for and who she is definitely not for, even when branding and marketing people ask whether she is repelling some people. She says that if her message repels someone who doesn't know they need that boldness or fierceness, that is the right person to have repelled.

How can fear become fuel?

When Michelle Margaret Marques feels fear, she listens to herself for a while to see whether it is real. If the feeling of what she wants still persists, she knows that fear is actually desire, and she goes after it even harder because of it.

Why would a coach shift from one-to-one work to one-to-many?

Michelle Margaret Marques has amazing one-to-one clients, but she is turning her focus to the one-to-many side of her business and to collaborations with people already in her world. She says it feels so much more connected to her purpose, and that her gift can change people's lives a lot faster by reaching a lot of people at once.

What can happen when a leader asks for something bigger?

Michelle Margaret Marques sent a voice note to one of her summit speakers asking whether he would host an event for her at his event space, which holds 390 people in person plus 25,000 streaming online. He almost immediately replied that he would love to and is partnering with her on it, and she left that meeting knowing she is 100 percent ready for that realm.

In their words

Where are you turning down your intimidation game?

Niiamah Ashong

When it comes to who I am in my core, there's no compromise.

Michelle Margaret Marques

That fear really is just that part of us that desires more.

Michelle Margaret Marques

Key moments

04:41 – Bold, real and in your face

05:44 – The client who felt intimidated

07:17 – What intimidating meant to Niiamah

13:59 – Clear about who she's not for

17:07 – Turn up your intimidation dial

21:49 – No compromise at her core

27:34 – The paradox of being too much

37:00 – Shifting focus to one-to-many

44:23 – Asking for a bigger stage

50:13 – Using fear as fuel

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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The Power in Running Towards Vulnerability with Jamin Heppell

Jamin Heppell, a leadership coach who created the ALIGN Leadership Program at Mountains & Marathons, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about the power in running toward vulnerability. Both men name the fear that showed up just before recording and use it as the starting point of the conversation. What emerged is Jamin's definition of success, the capacity to respond to and be with anything that shows up in life, and a practical sequence for owning and exploring uncomfortable emotions.

Episode at a glance

  • Guest: Jamin Heppell, Leadership coach who created the ALIGN Leadership Program at Mountains & Marathons
  • Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
  • Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released January 3, 2023
  • Format: conversation, 47 minutes
  • Topics: Running toward vulnerability, Transparency versus vulnerability, Success as capacity, Owning emotions, Expanding the nervous system, Living in alignment

What Jamin brought to the conversation

Jamin Heppell describes himself as a leadership coach whose work is supporting people to live in alignment, meaning congruent with their truth: distinguishing that truth, clearing what's in the way of it and bringing it to life. His flagship ALIGN Leadership Program at Mountains & Marathons is a six-month program that combines transformational leadership coaching, fitness coaching and nutrition coaching, and graduates with an international retreat where members run a marathon or climb a mountain in extraordinary places around the world. He lives a nomadic life, feeling into the energy of the places he travels. Niiamah Ashong counts him among the men he respects most on the planet, and he still carries the one word Jamin whispered during a hug years ago: soften.

What emerged

Building on Niiamah Ashong's distinction between transparency and vulnerability, Jamin Heppell explains that sharing what is already resolved inside is transparency, while vulnerability carries real uncertainty about what's on the other side. He defines success as the capacity to respond to and be with anything that shows up in life, so he responsibly seeks out experiences that make his hands tremble a little and his heart beat faster, to expand his nervous system's capacity. Niiamah recognizes moments when he has limited the success he was willing to pursue because of a what if, and Jamin names that low-key, mostly unacknowledged what if as the thing that keeps people small.

Questions this episode answers

What's the difference between transparency and vulnerability?

Niiamah Ashong notes that sharing what's happening within him isn't always vulnerability; sometimes it's simply transparency. Jamin Heppell adds that vulnerability means there's uncertainty on the other side, while sharing something already resolved inside is transparency, which he links to a distinction he credits to someone else: doing vulnerability versus being vulnerable.

How can a leader define success beyond business results?

Jamin Heppell defines success as the capacity to respond to and be with anything that shows up in life. If he has that capacity, he asks, what is there to be afraid of, so his path is to responsibly seek out experiences that activate fear and expand his nervous system's capacity to hold more of life.

How should a leader handle uncomfortable emotions?

Jamin Heppell's sequence starts with taking complete responsibility for one's own emotional experience instead of projecting it onto other people or circumstances. Next comes relating to emotions as comfortable or uncomfortable rather than good or bad, then asking 'can I stay here' and breathing with the discomfort until the nervous system settles, and only then getting curious about where it might be coming from.

Why lean into being triggered instead of avoiding it?

Jamin Heppell sees every triggering moment as an invitation to go deeper and discern what's truly at its source, which can lead from a surface frustration down to an older story. Niiamah Ashong recalls someone in a transformational experience who had never been in a room with people who actively seek to get triggered, and he sees Jamin choosing to lean in rather than run.

What holds leaders back from pursuing more success?

Niiamah Ashong recognizes times he has limited the amount of success he was even willing to pursue because of a what if. Jamin Heppell says it's that low-key, mostly unacknowledged what if that keeps people small and gets in the way of saying yes to what's possible.

In their words

It's the what if, right, that keeps us small.

Jamin Heppell

Emotions are simply emotions. They come and go like the weather, and there is only two kinds of emotions, comfortable and uncomfortable.

Jamin Heppell

Every triggering moment exists as an invitation to go deeper and discern what's truly at the source.

Jamin Heppell

Key moments

05:09 – A whispered word: soften, brother

07:15 – Living in alignment with truth

07:46 – Leadership through mountains and marathons

11:53 – Naming fear before recording

18:11 – A space of safety and permission

20:17 – Transparency versus vulnerability

22:23 – Being versus doing vulnerability

27:04 – Success as capacity

33:19 – The what if that keeps people small

34:52 – Owning the emotional experience

Enter Jamin Heppell’s world

Website

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Simplicity is the Core of Everything with Erik Ingvoldstad

Erik Ingvoldstad, a problem solver who builds digital tools and prototypes user experience, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about simplicity, honesty and innovation. He names simplicity as the core of everything, from customer interactions to family life, and explains why brutal honesty is about speaking to what's real, not being harsh. What emerged is his case for trying things out: experiment, prototype and let ideas come from anyone in an organization.

Episode at a glance

  • Guest: Erik Ingvoldstad, Problem solver who builds digital tools and prototypes user experience; former advertising copywriter
  • Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
  • Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released December 27, 2022
  • Format: conversation, 56 minutes
  • Topics: Simplicity as the core of everything, Brutal honesty with care, Saying ideas out loud, Innovation where the customers are, Trying things out and prototyping, Diverse experience as a strength

What Erik brought to the conversation

Erik Ingvoldstad brings an extremely diverse background: he worked in advertising as a copywriter, wrote for magazines, worked in fintech, taught creativity and now builds digital tools and does user experience prototyping. Solving problems is what he loves to do, and he deliberately calls them problems, with an eye that keeps seeing how things could be done better. Niiamah Ashong describes him as a provocateur who delivers difficult, real information in a way people are still able to receive. He makes a point of saying when things are great too, telling people when they did a great job or really helped him.

What emerged

The central idea is the one Erik Ingvoldstad named when Niiamah Ashong asked for his bottom line: simplicity is the core of everything, and it is one of the things that is really hard to achieve. He says it is about human interaction, not only customer experience: if things are hard for people they won't like it, and if they're easy people will love it. Niiamah Ashong connects this to being yourself, which he calls simple but super hard. The conversation closes on trying things out, because even when a whole thing doesn't work, there can be one part that did.

Questions this episode answers

Why is simplicity so important in customer and human interactions?

Erik Ingvoldstad says people don't care about a company's brand; they care about themselves, their family, their wallet and their time. If things are hard for people they won't like it, and if they're easy people will love it, which is why he calls simplicity the core of everything.

What is the difference between brutal honesty and being a jerk?

Erik Ingvoldstad says brutal honesty doesn't mean telling people they're ugly or stupid; that is just being a jerk. For him it means speaking about things that are real and connecting what someone says to how it will actually impact people.

Where does real innovation happen inside a company?

Speaking at a large bank's innovation hub, Erik Ingvoldstad told the audience that innovation happens out where the customers are, when you understand their problems and fix them. He says that means talking to customer service representatives, salespeople, support staff and the customers themselves, and empowering a team to understand that ideas can come from anywhere.

Why should leaders talk through ideas out loud?

As a copywriter, Erik Ingvoldstad found that writing he was happy with didn't sound right once he read it out loud in front of the client. He says that when you say things out loud you hear them in a different way, and talking with others gives you both resistance and encouragement, which you need in your life.

How can a leader make experimentation part of how they work?

Something that drives Erik Ingvoldstad is trying things out: experimenting and prototyping, even with a couple of sticky notes to create a mock phone. He says this isn't only for UX or product people but for CEOs and anyone, because even when the whole thing falls apart there can be one part that actually worked.

In their words

When you say things out loud, you hear them in a different way.

Erik Ingvoldstad

If you make it hard for people, they're not gonna like it. If you make it easy for people, they're gonna love it.

Erik Ingvoldstad

The innovation happens out where the customers are, when you can understand their problems and you can fix their problems. That's innovation.

Erik Ingvoldstad

Key moments

01:33 – A provocateur people can still hear

03:38 – Brutal honesty versus being a jerk

04:40 – Why he calls them problems

10:51 – Hearing ideas by saying them aloud

12:56 – Listening as much as speaking

16:05 – Simplicity is the core of everything

25:54 – Diverse experience as a strength

32:35 – Objective truth and interpreted truth

40:54 – Innovation happens where customers are

46:05 – Try it out and prototype

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Using Your Unique Traits to Lead in Tense Environments with Tina Collins

Tina Collins, an award-winning coach to executives and their teams, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about using her unique traits to lead in tense environments. She shares how humor about herself puts teams at ease so the real work can happen, and why she takes her work seriously without taking herself seriously. What emerged is her vision for a place where leaders practice leadership over the long term, the way athletes train for game day.

Episode at a glance

  • Guest: Tina Collins, Award-winning coach to executives and their teams
  • Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
  • Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released December 20, 2022
  • Format: conversation, 50 minutes
  • Topics: Humor as a leadership edge, Taking the work seriously, not herself, Being an outlier, Creating your own belonging, Practicing leadership like an athlete, Essential skills, not soft skills

What Tina brought to the conversation

Tina Collins spent about 26 years consulting globally, on teams that accomplished extraordinary things, including saving lives in Afghanistan. She came to see that the best part of her consulting was coaching, and she now helps leaders and their teams outperform and live up to their potential, which she calls the greatest work of her life. Her edge is a really good sense of humor, especially about herself, and she says she almost has people in stitches within the first 60 seconds, which puts them at ease so they're able to hear differently. She has also trademarked a word, commonly used in the 1400s, that names the space between where a person is and where they want to be.

What emerged

The central distinction is one Tina Collins names herself: she doesn't take herself seriously, but she takes her work really seriously. Early in her career she played the part in gray suits and heels, and when she later practiced her stand-up comedy material on her colleagues, she found they were more invested and trusted and respected her more. On belonging, she is moving from looking outside for a place to belong to looking inward and creating that place through her own vision. Niiamah Ashong sees her vision of a place to practice leadership as the direction the learning industry is heading: people have access to information, and what they don't have access to is experience.

Questions this episode answers

How can a leader use humor to put a team at ease during change?

With the latest team she onboarded, Tina Collins held conversations with each person before the first meeting, then used what she learned to bring humor into the room. She told the team right off the bat that she wasn't going to flip the table right now, and when the whole team laughed together, the anxiety and fear went way down because they knew they were going to have some fun.

What does it mean to take your work seriously without taking yourself seriously?

Tina Collins separates what she does from who she is: she listens deeply and asks super prickly questions, and who she is, in her words, is a source of levity, peace, comfort, hope and fun. She believes that when people see someone having fun while doing really tough work, it feels less intimidating, less scary and more possible.

Why isn't reading about leadership enough to become a better leader?

Tina Collins notes there are over a billion articles on what leaders need to be, but reading about good listening doesn't teach the nuance of great listening. She says leaders need an ecosystem for long-term practice, the way Olympic athletes put in hours and hours of dedicated training.

Are soft skills really the hard skills in leadership?

Niiamah Ashong argues the so-called soft skills are the hardest skills, and Tina Collins calls them essential skills. She says working out the resources, cost and time a plan needs is easy compared with getting a team to work optimally, which she calls the harder skill, hands down.

What does it mean to be an outlier as a leader?

Tina Collins pictures a herd in a field with one animal off to the side, someone willing to separate from the group to explore and have their own adventures. Niiamah Ashong adds that this outlier could walk right back but has chosen something different, and he sees being an outlier as a competitive edge.

In their words

I really don't take myself seriously, but I take my work really seriously.

Tina Collins

If people see you having fun while you're doing really tough work, it's less intimidating, it's less scary, it's more possible.

Tina Collins

This desire to always have a place where I belonged may not exist. I may have to create it.

Tina Collins

Key moments

06:12 – From global consulting to coaching

14:21 – What an outlier looks like

16:23 – Humor as her unique advantage

18:58 – Onboarding a new team with humor

22:32 – Serious about the work, not herself

25:05 – Earning trust through stand-up comedy

26:38 – The person versus the product

34:17 – Creating her own place to belong

37:22 – A practice center for leaders

41:57 – Soft skills are essential skills

Enter Tina Collins’s world

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About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

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Realizing Your Vision Through Teamwork with Kim Tice

Kim Tice, a coach and recruiter for creative people after 18 years in advertising, joins Niiamah Ashong on the Outlier's Edge Podcast to talk about realizing a vision through teamwork. She describes her gift as enabling visionary thinkers and translating big ideas into action with a team behind her. What emerged is a sharper idea of team: not just people pulled together, but people who see and understand each other's strengths and weaknesses.

Episode at a glance

  • Guest: Kim Tice, Coach and recruiter for creative people, after 18 years in advertising
  • Host: Niiamah Ashong, coach to outlier leaders
  • Show: Outlier’s Edge Podcast, released December 13, 2022
  • Format: conversation, 54 minutes
  • Topics: Vision and execution, It takes a team, Being seen and understood, Playing to strengths, Outliers and creativity, Creating spaces for courage

What Kim brought to the conversation

Kim Tice spent 18 years in the advertising industry on the business side, as a true partner to the creative team in coming up with big ideas, then transitioned into coaching and recruiting, still surrounded by creative people. She used to call herself a great number two, and now sees herself as an enabler of visionary thinkers who figures out how to get the work done, sell it through and get other people to believe in it. Niiamah Ashong trusts her not just to hold his vision but to carry it forward, and he sees her as someone who chooses to live in the fullness and richness of all life has to offer. With a colleague from the ad industry, she is creating programs to serve people in the creative industry.

What emerged

Kim Tice reframes the challenge for visionary leaders: they can cover a wall with ideas, but no one can do anything alone, and ideas that big need a team. She asks why anyone would pretend to be something they're not, when someone else's strength may simply be execution. When Niiamah Ashong asks her to put that question to him, he explores how being a chameleon has let him keep stepping into rooms where people play bigger games, and Kim adds that the right team is made of people who can see and understand each other. She also notices that what Niiamah did on his best team, talking to people and creating spaces where people feel courageous enough to be themselves, is exactly what he does now.

Questions this episode answers

Can a visionary leader succeed alone?

Kim Tice says no one can do anything alone, and visionary ideas are often so big that one or two people can't carry them. Her gift is supporting the vision, delegating and managing people to keep it moving forward, because not everyone can translate a vision into action.

What makes a great team?

Kim Tice says it's not just about pulling people together to be a team, but pulling together people who see and understand each other's strengths and weaknesses. Without that, she says, a leader can hire anyone under the sun and it's not the right team.

Why stop comparing yourself to people who seem to execute easily?

Kim Tice calls comparison the thief of joy, and notes that the people who seem to execute easily may simply have their strength in execution and project management. She asks why anyone would pretend to be something they're not, since in her own experience trying to be something she's not has taken her further from the goal she set out to reach.

What do the greatest teams have in common?

Niiamah Ashong believes the greatest teams find a way to tap into the outlier mindset, drawing on the different experiences of the people on the team while creating enough psychological safety for them to show up as they are. Kim Tice connects this to advertising, which she says is largely made of outliers, and senses a connection between creativity and outliers.

Who should a leader surround themselves with?

Kim Tice says that as she's gotten older she cares less about having commonalities with groups and is magnetized to the people who can see and understand her. She has many really good friends, and a core set who truly understand and see her.

In their words

I'm an enabler of really visionary thinkers, and I figure out how to get that work done.

Kim Tice

It takes a team. It takes a team to live the life I want.

Kim Tice

It's not just about pulling people together to be a team. It's pulling together people that can see and understand you and understand your strengths, your weaknesses, and you can understand their strengths and weaknesses.

Kim Tice

Key moments

04:09 – Trusted to carry the vision

08:22 – An enabler of visionary thinkers

13:33 – No one does it alone

14:35 – It takes a team

20:51 – Why pretend to be someone else

23:25 – Kim turns the question around

28:06 – The chameleon advantage

34:20 – Teams that see and understand each other

36:25 – The best team Niiamah has known

49:30 – Creating spaces for courage

About Niiamah Ashong

Niiamah Ashong is a coach to outlier leaders, host of the Outlier’s Edge Podcast, and founder of the Trailblazer Collective. He coaches leaders who are creating something only they can make: a company, a body of work or a movement. Make a difference with your difference.

Work with Niiamah: 1:1 with Niiamah | World of Difference

Continue into Outlier’s Edge World:

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